[Audacity-devel] EXPERIMENTAL_MIDI_OUT + EXPERIMENTAL_DA

[Paul Licameli]

I see James has introduced EXPERIMENTAL_DA.

On Mac at least, I already see that there are changes of appearance even
with EXPERIMENTAL_DA disabled. Sliders look different, their thumbs are
not symmetrical and the scale is a bold line without ticks. The empty part
of the track panel is colored differently. The Mute, Solo, menu, and
minimize buttons of a selected track do not change their color with the
control panel. The minimize buttons are not drawn in the same position.
The menu button appears a bit taller and obscures some of the text below
it. This list is not meant to be exhaustive.

When I enable both EXPERIMENTAL_DA and EXPERIMENTAL_MIDI_OUT, I see that
the Wave track now stacks its mute and solo buttons but a note track does
not.

PRL

[James Crook]

Sorry I couldn't get to post an email about it until now.

We agreed during 2.1.3 that we'd be offering the dark theme as an option
in 2.2.0. The problems are pretty visible, but are actually 'minor'
compared to the main task of making the changes at all. Returning
numbers to the meter is my top priority, and then Sync-Lock, then
sorting out some of the colour changes that you and Gale have commented
on. I also want to make it so that a theme change completes without a
restart.

I will sort out the stacking of buttons for mute/solo with
EXPERIMENTAL_MIDI_OUT. Making sure that MIDI is compatible with the DA
changes was one of the motivations for checking it in now rather than
later.

I intend that actual release will offer light, dark and custom, and we
can provide a theme pack with 'classic', light and dark ImageCache.png,
and instructions for modding. I'm open to being argued into offering
classic, dark and custom instead, or all four but on a drop down. I too
feel that four radio buttons like that is too many.

--James.

Post by Paul Licameli
I see James has introduced EXPERIMENTAL_DA.
On Mac at least, I already see that there are changes of appearance even
with EXPERIMENTAL_DA disabled. Sliders look different, their thumbs are
not symmetrical and the scale is a bold line without ticks. The empty part
of the track panel is colored differently. The Mute, Solo, menu, and
minimize buttons of a selected track do not change their color with the
control panel. The minimize buttons are not drawn in the same position.
The menu button appears a bit taller and obscures some of the text below
it. This list is not meant to be exhaustive.
When I enable both EXPERIMENTAL_DA and EXPERIMENTAL_MIDI_OUT, I see that
the Wave track now stacks its mute and solo buttons but a note track does
not.
PRL
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[Peter Sampson]

I'm open to being argued into offering classic, dark and custom instead

please don't - I'm already finding myself liking the Light theme *greatly*

and more choice IMO

Peter

[Gale Andrews]

I think the "deal" was that Classic is offered by default, so Classic
should be a choice in Preferences.

"Light" looks unfinished to me. It offers the new buttons but is
darker than "Classic". I would be fine with "Classic", "Dark"
and "Custom" or those plus a more straightforward "Classic/New
buttons". That's unless we tweak "Light". Perhaps it should be
light blue or something like that?

Don't forget James that I asked you about a High Contrast Theme
a while ago. We don't support OS High Contrast Themes properly,
so this seems a good opportunity to provide our own as a choice
(even if it has to be loaded though "Custom"). I "assume" a dark
background High Contrast Theme would be most useful, but perhaps
David has a view.



Gale

Post by James Crook
Sorry I couldn't get to post an email about it until now.
We agreed during 2.1.3 that we'd be offering the dark theme as an option in
2.2.0. The problems are pretty visible, but are actually 'minor' compared
to the main task of making the changes at all. Returning numbers to the
meter is my top priority, and then Sync-Lock, then sorting out some of the
colour changes that you and Gale have commented on. I also want to make it
so that a theme change completes without a restart.
I will sort out the stacking of buttons for mute/solo with
EXPERIMENTAL_MIDI_OUT. Making sure that MIDI is compatible with the DA
changes was one of the motivations for checking it in now rather than later.
I intend that actual release will offer light, dark and custom, and we can
provide a theme pack with 'classic', light and dark ImageCache.png, and
instructions for modding. I'm open to being argued into offering classic,
dark and custom instead, or all four but on a drop down. I too feel that
four radio buttons like that is too many.
--James.
I see James has introduced EXPERIMENTAL_DA.
On Mac at least, I already see that there are changes of appearance even
with EXPERIMENTAL_DA disabled. Sliders look different, their thumbs are
not symmetrical and the scale is a bold line without ticks. The empty part
of the track panel is colored differently. The Mute, Solo, menu, and
minimize buttons of a selected track do not change their color with the
control panel. The minimize buttons are not drawn in the same position.
The menu button appears a bit taller and obscures some of the text below
it. This list is not meant to be exhaustive.
When I enable both EXPERIMENTAL_DA and EXPERIMENTAL_MIDI_OUT, I see that
the Wave track now stacks its mute and solo buttons but a note track does
not.
PRL
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[James Crook]

Post by Gale Andrews
I think the "deal" was that Classic is offered by default, so Classic
should be a choice in Preferences.
"Light" looks unfinished to me. It offers the new buttons but is
darker than "Classic". I would be fine with "Classic", "Dark"
and "Custom" or those plus a more straightforward "Classic/New
buttons". That's unless we tweak "Light". Perhaps it should be
light blue or something like that?
Don't forget James that I asked you about a High Contrast Theme
a while ago. We don't support OS High Contrast Themes properly,
so this seems a good opportunity to provide our own as a choice
(even if it has to be loaded though "Custom"). I "assume" a dark
background High Contrast Theme would be most useful, but perhaps
David has a view.

A high contrast theme could be loaded through 'Custom'.

The images and colours are still moving around - and I see the need for
new colours to support MIDI too - so I don't want to hand out
ImageCache.pngs for modding far and wide yet without a health warning
about that. But that IS how we would do it. I'm happy to provide a
proof-of-concept hi-contrast theme or show you how to tweak an
ImageCache.png to get that.

--James

Post by Gale Andrews
Gale

[Gale Andrews]

I'm happy to try out a High Contrast Theme when one is ready.

Let me know at the time if I can give it to some of the complainants
to test, so we get their feedback.



Gale

Post by James Crook

Post by Gale Andrews
I think the "deal" was that Classic is offered by default, so Classic
should be a choice in Preferences.
"Light" looks unfinished to me. It offers the new buttons but is
darker than "Classic". I would be fine with "Classic", "Dark"
and "Custom" or those plus a more straightforward "Classic/New
buttons". That's unless we tweak "Light". Perhaps it should be
light blue or something like that?
Don't forget James that I asked you about a High Contrast Theme
a while ago. We don't support OS High Contrast Themes properly,
so this seems a good opportunity to provide our own as a choice
(even if it has to be loaded though "Custom"). I "assume" a dark
background High Contrast Theme would be most useful, but perhaps
David has a view.

A high contrast theme could be loaded through 'Custom'.
The images and colours are still moving around - and I see the need for
new colours to support MIDI too - so I don't want to hand out
ImageCache.pngs for modding far and wide yet without a health warning
about that. But that IS how we would do it. I'm happy to provide a
proof-of-concept hi-contrast theme or show you how to tweak an
ImageCache.png to get that.
--James

Post by Gale Andrews
Gale

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[Peter Sampson]

Post by Gale Andrews
I think the "deal" was that Classic is offered by default, so Classic
should be a choice in Preferences.

I think you are misunderstanding me Gale. I was in no way asking James
to remove "Classic" - far from it, and I think the "Classic" theme needs to
be as much like the existing 2.1.3 look as possible if not exactly the same.
And I'm expecting it to be the default (though personally I would prefer t0
see one of the more modern-looking themes to be the default to give Audacity
a fresh look by default with the next release - tha analogy here is when we
upgraded the meters, made the new meters default and offered the okd RMS
meters as an option).

Rather what I wsa appealing to James was not to remove the "Light" theme
Yes it has a few rough edges but I am confident in James' ability to smooth
those out. It does give Audacity a more modern look without changing our
traditional ("Classic") colorway too much.

Post by Gale Andrews
Perhaps it should be light blue or something like that?.

Pehaps we could have that too in addition to light and call it "Blue" theme.

Cheers,
Peter

[Gale Andrews]

I was replying to James who said:

"I intend that actual release will offer light, dark and custom"

i.e no Classic theme.

So I am "vehemently agreeing" with Peter that Classic theme
should be retained and should be the theme we had in 2.1.3
release.



Gale

Post by Peter Sampson

Post by Gale Andrews
I think the "deal" was that Classic is offered by default, so Classic
should be a choice in Preferences.

I think you are misunderstanding me Gale. I was in no way asking James
to remove "Classic" - far from it, and I think the "Classic" theme needs to
be as much like the existing 2.1.3 look as possible if not exactly the same.
And I'm expecting it to be the default (though personally I would prefer t0
see one of the more modern-looking themes to be the default to give Audacity
a fresh look by default with the next release - tha analogy here is when we
upgraded the meters, made the new meters default and offered the okd RMS
meters as an option).
Rather what I wsa appealing to James was not to remove the "Light" theme
Yes it has a few rough edges but I am confident in James' ability to smooth
those out. It does give Audacity a more modern look without changing our
traditional ("Classic") colorway too much.

Post by Gale Andrews
Perhaps it should be light blue or something like that?.

Pehaps we could have that too in addition to light and call it "Blue" theme.
Cheers,
Peter
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