Discussion:
[Audacity-devel] We already had bad quality drag-and-drop MIDI rendering? Thanks to FFmpeg?
Paul Licameli
2017-04-01 03:14:50 UTC
Permalink
I just compiled Pokechu22's branch on Windows and imported a MIDI file and
basic playback worked.

But I also made a discovery. I can drag and drop a .MID file onto the
Audacity window and it renders (but badly, with wrong timbres!) as a
waveform. This happens even in master. Debugging showed me the FFmpeg
import plugin was doing it.

Did we know we had this feature? I didn't!

The same does not happen on macOS. Instead I get an error dialog telling
me to use Import MIDI... in the menus. The reason for the difference may
relate to the conditional compilation in class DropTarget in Project.cpp.

PRL
Paul Licameli
2017-04-01 11:01:31 UTC
Permalink
t
The rendering is so poor, perhaps we should disable this on Windows as on
Mac. Did you try it? Awful.
Huh, that's really odd.
I don't know why ffmpeg supports midi suddenly. Their site makes no
claims about midi support, and I can't find anything in the source
that implies it should...
(https://github.com/FFmpeg/FFmpeg/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=midi&type=
shows support for midi sample dumps (no clue what those are, but the
extension is sds), but not midi itself). Yet it works (both in
audacity, and with the standalone ffmpeg).
It also works via Import->Audio with "all files" selected, but not
when "all supported files" or "ffmpeg-compatible files" is selected.
I have no clue how... interesting find.
--Poke
Post by Paul Licameli
I just compiled Pokechu22's branch on Windows and imported a MIDI file
and
Post by Paul Licameli
basic playback worked.
But I also made a discovery. I can drag and drop a .MID file onto the
Audacity window and it renders (but badly, with wrong timbres!) as a
waveform. This happens even in master. Debugging showed me the FFmpeg
import plugin was doing it.
Did we know we had this feature? I didn't!
The same does not happen on macOS. Instead I get an error dialog
telling me
Post by Paul Licameli
to use Import MIDI... in the menus. The reason for the difference may
relate to the conditional compilation in class DropTarget in Project.cpp.
PRL
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Post by Paul Licameli
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engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Robert Hänggi
2017-04-01 11:30:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Licameli
t
The rendering is so poor, perhaps we should disable this on Windows as on
Mac. Did you try it? Awful.
Someone on the Audacity4blind mailing list mentioned it some weeks ago.
I did the same investigation as you with the same result.

It's really not worth keeping it until it is an official feature of FFMpeg.
To me, it sounds like some sort of "audio thumbnail".

Robert
Post by Paul Licameli
On Friday, March 31, 2017, Pokechu22
Huh, that's really odd.
I don't know why ffmpeg supports midi suddenly. Their site makes no
claims about midi support, and I can't find anything in the source
that implies it should...
(https://github.com/FFmpeg/FFmpeg/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=midi&type=
shows support for midi sample dumps (no clue what those are, but the
extension is sds), but not midi itself). Yet it works (both in
audacity, and with the standalone ffmpeg).
It also works via Import->Audio with "all files" selected, but not
when "all supported files" or "ffmpeg-compatible files" is selected.
I have no clue how... interesting find.
--Poke
Post by Paul Licameli
I just compiled Pokechu22's branch on Windows and imported a MIDI file
and
Post by Paul Licameli
basic playback worked.
But I also made a discovery. I can drag and drop a .MID file onto the
Audacity window and it renders (but badly, with wrong timbres!) as a
waveform. This happens even in master. Debugging showed me the FFmpeg
import plugin was doing it.
Did we know we had this feature? I didn't!
The same does not happen on macOS. Instead I get an error dialog
telling me
Post by Paul Licameli
to use Import MIDI... in the menus. The reason for the difference may
relate to the conditional compilation in class DropTarget in Project.cpp.
PRL
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Post by Paul Licameli
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Steve the Fiddle
2017-04-01 14:27:47 UTC
Permalink
That's amazing, I never knew FFmpeg could do that.
OK, so it's awful, truly awful, but could be of interest for people
wanting an easy way to make "chiptunes".

Steve
Post by Robert Hänggi
Post by Paul Licameli
t
The rendering is so poor, perhaps we should disable this on Windows as on
Mac. Did you try it? Awful.
Someone on the Audacity4blind mailing list mentioned it some weeks ago.
I did the same investigation as you with the same result.
It's really not worth keeping it until it is an official feature of FFMpeg.
To me, it sounds like some sort of "audio thumbnail".
Robert
Post by Paul Licameli
On Friday, March 31, 2017, Pokechu22
Huh, that's really odd.
I don't know why ffmpeg supports midi suddenly. Their site makes no
claims about midi support, and I can't find anything in the source
that implies it should...
(https://github.com/FFmpeg/FFmpeg/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=midi&type=
shows support for midi sample dumps (no clue what those are, but the
extension is sds), but not midi itself). Yet it works (both in
audacity, and with the standalone ffmpeg).
It also works via Import->Audio with "all files" selected, but not
when "all supported files" or "ffmpeg-compatible files" is selected.
I have no clue how... interesting find.
--Poke
Post by Paul Licameli
I just compiled Pokechu22's branch on Windows and imported a MIDI file
and
Post by Paul Licameli
basic playback worked.
But I also made a discovery. I can drag and drop a .MID file onto the
Audacity window and it renders (but badly, with wrong timbres!) as a
waveform. This happens even in master. Debugging showed me the FFmpeg
import plugin was doing it.
Did we know we had this feature? I didn't!
The same does not happen on macOS. Instead I get an error dialog
telling me
Post by Paul Licameli
to use Import MIDI... in the menus. The reason for the difference may
relate to the conditional compilation in class DropTarget in Project.cpp.
PRL
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Post by Paul Licameli
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Paul Licameli
2017-04-01 14:58:54 UTC
Permalink
Should this awful thing be available on all platforms or on none? As now,
neither is the case.

As I said, there is some code specific to Mac, probably put there for other
reasons, but incidentally blocking import of MIDI by FFmpeg.

PRL
Post by Steve the Fiddle
That's amazing, I never knew FFmpeg could do that.
OK, so it's awful, truly awful, but could be of interest for people
wanting an easy way to make "chiptunes".
Steve
Post by Robert Hänggi
Post by Paul Licameli
t
The rendering is so poor, perhaps we should disable this on Windows as
on
Post by Robert Hänggi
Post by Paul Licameli
Mac. Did you try it? Awful.
Someone on the Audacity4blind mailing list mentioned it some weeks ago.
I did the same investigation as you with the same result.
It's really not worth keeping it until it is an official feature of
FFMpeg.
Post by Robert Hänggi
To me, it sounds like some sort of "audio thumbnail".
Robert
Post by Paul Licameli
On Friday, March 31, 2017, Pokechu22
Huh, that's really odd.
I don't know why ffmpeg supports midi suddenly. Their site makes no
claims about midi support, and I can't find anything in the source
that implies it should...
(https://github.com/FFmpeg/FFmpeg/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=midi&type=
shows support for midi sample dumps (no clue what those are, but the
extension is sds), but not midi itself). Yet it works (both in
audacity, and with the standalone ffmpeg).
It also works via Import->Audio with "all files" selected, but not
when "all supported files" or "ffmpeg-compatible files" is selected.
I have no clue how... interesting find.
--Poke
On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 8:14 PM, Paul Licameli <
Post by Paul Licameli
I just compiled Pokechu22's branch on Windows and imported a MIDI
file
Post by Robert Hänggi
Post by Paul Licameli
and
Post by Paul Licameli
basic playback worked.
But I also made a discovery. I can drag and drop a .MID file onto
the
Post by Robert Hänggi
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
Audacity window and it renders (but badly, with wrong timbres!) as a
waveform. This happens even in master. Debugging showed me the
FFmpeg
Post by Robert Hänggi
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
import plugin was doing it.
Did we know we had this feature? I didn't!
The same does not happen on macOS. Instead I get an error dialog
telling me
Post by Paul Licameli
to use Import MIDI... in the menus. The reason for the difference
may
Post by Robert Hänggi
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
relate to the conditional compilation in class DropTarget in Project.cpp.
PRL
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Post by Paul Licameli
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
audacity-devel mailing list
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Post by Robert Hänggi
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engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Steve the Fiddle
2017-04-01 15:36:21 UTC
Permalink
Try dragging this file into Audacity on Windows with FFmpeg.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p1d0ahqtt0qvg6n/GSLINGER.mid?dl=0

Steve
Post by Paul Licameli
Should this awful thing be available on all platforms or on none? As now,
neither is the case.
As I said, there is some code specific to Mac, probably put there for other
reasons, but incidentally blocking import of MIDI by FFmpeg.
PRL
Post by Steve the Fiddle
That's amazing, I never knew FFmpeg could do that.
OK, so it's awful, truly awful, but could be of interest for people
wanting an easy way to make "chiptunes".
Steve
Post by Robert Hänggi
Post by Paul Licameli
t
The rendering is so poor, perhaps we should disable this on Windows as on
Mac. Did you try it? Awful.
Someone on the Audacity4blind mailing list mentioned it some weeks ago.
I did the same investigation as you with the same result.
It's really not worth keeping it until it is an official feature of FFMpeg.
To me, it sounds like some sort of "audio thumbnail".
Robert
Post by Paul Licameli
On Friday, March 31, 2017, Pokechu22
Huh, that's really odd.
I don't know why ffmpeg supports midi suddenly. Their site makes no
claims about midi support, and I can't find anything in the source
that implies it should...
(https://github.com/FFmpeg/FFmpeg/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=midi&type=
shows support for midi sample dumps (no clue what those are, but the
extension is sds), but not midi itself). Yet it works (both in
audacity, and with the standalone ffmpeg).
It also works via Import->Audio with "all files" selected, but not
when "all supported files" or "ffmpeg-compatible files" is selected.
I have no clue how... interesting find.
--Poke
On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 8:14 PM, Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
I just compiled Pokechu22's branch on Windows and imported a MIDI file
and
Post by Paul Licameli
basic playback worked.
But I also made a discovery. I can drag and drop a .MID file onto the
Audacity window and it renders (but badly, with wrong timbres!) as a
waveform. This happens even in master. Debugging showed me the FFmpeg
import plugin was doing it.
Did we know we had this feature? I didn't!
The same does not happen on macOS. Instead I get an error dialog
telling me
Post by Paul Licameli
to use Import MIDI... in the menus. The reason for the difference may
relate to the conditional compilation in class DropTarget in Project.cpp.
PRL
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Post by Paul Licameli
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
audacity-devel mailing list
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Robert Hänggi
2017-04-01 17:55:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Try dragging this file into Audacity on Windows with FFmpeg.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p1d0ahqtt0qvg6n/GSLINGER.mid?dl=0
Sounds pretty good.
Is it some kind of mod file?

Robert
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Steve
Post by Paul Licameli
Should this awful thing be available on all platforms or on none? As now,
neither is the case.
As I said, there is some code specific to Mac, probably put there for other
reasons, but incidentally blocking import of MIDI by FFmpeg.
PRL
On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
That's amazing, I never knew FFmpeg could do that.
OK, so it's awful, truly awful, but could be of interest for people
wanting an easy way to make "chiptunes".
Steve
Post by Robert Hänggi
Post by Paul Licameli
t
The rendering is so poor, perhaps we should disable this on Windows as on
Mac. Did you try it? Awful.
Someone on the Audacity4blind mailing list mentioned it some weeks ago.
I did the same investigation as you with the same result.
It's really not worth keeping it until it is an official feature of FFMpeg.
To me, it sounds like some sort of "audio thumbnail".
Robert
Post by Paul Licameli
On Friday, March 31, 2017, Pokechu22
Huh, that's really odd.
I don't know why ffmpeg supports midi suddenly. Their site makes no
claims about midi support, and I can't find anything in the source
that implies it should...
(https://github.com/FFmpeg/FFmpeg/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=midi&type=
shows support for midi sample dumps (no clue what those are, but the
extension is sds), but not midi itself). Yet it works (both in
audacity, and with the standalone ffmpeg).
It also works via Import->Audio with "all files" selected, but not
when "all supported files" or "ffmpeg-compatible files" is selected.
I have no clue how... interesting find.
--Poke
On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 8:14 PM, Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
I just compiled Pokechu22's branch on Windows and imported a MIDI file
and
Post by Paul Licameli
basic playback worked.
But I also made a discovery. I can drag and drop a .MID file onto the
Audacity window and it renders (but badly, with wrong timbres!) as a
waveform. This happens even in master. Debugging showed me the FFmpeg
import plugin was doing it.
Did we know we had this feature? I didn't!
The same does not happen on macOS. Instead I get an error dialog
telling me
Post by Paul Licameli
to use Import MIDI... in the menus. The reason for the difference may
relate to the conditional compilation in class DropTarget in Project.cpp.
PRL
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Post by Paul Licameli
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
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Steve the Fiddle
2017-04-01 18:28:39 UTC
Permalink
And the prize goes to Robert :-)
Yes it's a mod file.

I think the reason that FFmpeg gives some sound from MIDI files is an
accident. My guess is that libmodplug is trying to read them and is
using a generic "beep" tone in the absence of any audio data in the
file.

I've not found anything about MIDI support in FFmpeg, other than
everyone saying "FFmpeg does not support MIDI", but FFmpeg DOES
support MOD files via libmodplug.

So in response to Paul's question, I don't think we should drop mod
file support. I think we should make it work on all platforms and
document it.

Steve
Post by Robert Hänggi
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Try dragging this file into Audacity on Windows with FFmpeg.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p1d0ahqtt0qvg6n/GSLINGER.mid?dl=0
Sounds pretty good.
Is it some kind of mod file?
Robert
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Steve
Post by Paul Licameli
Should this awful thing be available on all platforms or on none? As now,
neither is the case.
As I said, there is some code specific to Mac, probably put there for other
reasons, but incidentally blocking import of MIDI by FFmpeg.
PRL
On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
That's amazing, I never knew FFmpeg could do that.
OK, so it's awful, truly awful, but could be of interest for people
wanting an easy way to make "chiptunes".
Steve
Post by Robert Hänggi
Post by Paul Licameli
t
The rendering is so poor, perhaps we should disable this on Windows as on
Mac. Did you try it? Awful.
Someone on the Audacity4blind mailing list mentioned it some weeks ago.
I did the same investigation as you with the same result.
It's really not worth keeping it until it is an official feature of FFMpeg.
To me, it sounds like some sort of "audio thumbnail".
Robert
Post by Paul Licameli
On Friday, March 31, 2017, Pokechu22
Huh, that's really odd.
I don't know why ffmpeg supports midi suddenly. Their site makes no
claims about midi support, and I can't find anything in the source
that implies it should...
(https://github.com/FFmpeg/FFmpeg/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=midi&type=
shows support for midi sample dumps (no clue what those are, but the
extension is sds), but not midi itself). Yet it works (both in
audacity, and with the standalone ffmpeg).
It also works via Import->Audio with "all files" selected, but not
when "all supported files" or "ffmpeg-compatible files" is selected.
I have no clue how... interesting find.
--Poke
On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 8:14 PM, Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
I just compiled Pokechu22's branch on Windows and imported a MIDI file
and
Post by Paul Licameli
basic playback worked.
But I also made a discovery. I can drag and drop a .MID file onto the
Audacity window and it renders (but badly, with wrong timbres!) as a
waveform. This happens even in master. Debugging showed me the FFmpeg
import plugin was doing it.
Did we know we had this feature? I didn't!
The same does not happen on macOS. Instead I get an error dialog
telling me
Post by Paul Licameli
to use Import MIDI... in the menus. The reason for the difference may
relate to the conditional compilation in class DropTarget in Project.cpp.
PRL
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Post by Paul Licameli
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Paul Licameli
2017-04-02 17:34:40 UTC
Permalink
I know nothing about .mod files. No relation to .mid files? Or is it a
similar enough format?

What do we think is happening? Does ffmpeg misinterpret .mid files as if
some other format?

Somehow the bad renderings I hear get the melody somewhat right, but the
timbres wrong, and there are loud clicks in the result. It's weird.

PRL
Post by Steve the Fiddle
And the prize goes to Robert :-)
Yes it's a mod file.
I think the reason that FFmpeg gives some sound from MIDI files is an
accident. My guess is that libmodplug is trying to read them and is
using a generic "beep" tone in the absence of any audio data in the
file.
I've not found anything about MIDI support in FFmpeg, other than
everyone saying "FFmpeg does not support MIDI", but FFmpeg DOES
support MOD files via libmodplug.
So in response to Paul's question, I don't think we should drop mod
file support. I think we should make it work on all platforms and
document it.
Steve
Post by Robert Hänggi
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Try dragging this file into Audacity on Windows with FFmpeg.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p1d0ahqtt0qvg6n/GSLINGER.mid?dl=0
Sounds pretty good.
Is it some kind of mod file?
Robert
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Steve
Post by Paul Licameli
Should this awful thing be available on all platforms or on none? As
now,
Post by Robert Hänggi
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
neither is the case.
As I said, there is some code specific to Mac, probably put there for other
reasons, but incidentally blocking import of MIDI by FFmpeg.
PRL
On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
That's amazing, I never knew FFmpeg could do that.
OK, so it's awful, truly awful, but could be of interest for people
wanting an easy way to make "chiptunes".
Steve
Post by Robert Hänggi
Post by Paul Licameli
t
The rendering is so poor, perhaps we should disable this on
Windows as
Post by Robert Hänggi
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Robert Hänggi
Post by Paul Licameli
on
Mac. Did you try it? Awful.
Someone on the Audacity4blind mailing list mentioned it some weeks
ago.
Post by Robert Hänggi
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Robert Hänggi
I did the same investigation as you with the same result.
It's really not worth keeping it until it is an official feature of FFMpeg.
To me, it sounds like some sort of "audio thumbnail".
Robert
Post by Paul Licameli
On Friday, March 31, 2017, Pokechu22
Huh, that's really odd.
I don't know why ffmpeg supports midi suddenly. Their site makes
no
Post by Robert Hänggi
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Robert Hänggi
Post by Paul Licameli
claims about midi support, and I can't find anything in the source
that implies it should...
(https://github.com/FFmpeg/FFmpeg/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&
q=midi&type=
Post by Robert Hänggi
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Robert Hänggi
Post by Paul Licameli
shows support for midi sample dumps (no clue what those are, but
the
Post by Robert Hänggi
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Robert Hänggi
Post by Paul Licameli
extension is sds), but not midi itself). Yet it works (both in
audacity, and with the standalone ffmpeg).
It also works via Import->Audio with "all files" selected, but not
when "all supported files" or "ffmpeg-compatible files" is
selected.
Post by Robert Hänggi
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Robert Hänggi
Post by Paul Licameli
I have no clue how... interesting find.
--Poke
On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 8:14 PM, Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
I just compiled Pokechu22's branch on Windows and imported a
MIDI
Post by Robert Hänggi
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Robert Hänggi
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
file
and
Post by Paul Licameli
basic playback worked.
But I also made a discovery. I can drag and drop a .MID file
onto
Post by Robert Hänggi
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Robert Hänggi
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
the
Audacity window and it renders (but badly, with wrong timbres!)
as
Post by Robert Hänggi
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Robert Hänggi
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
a
waveform. This happens even in master. Debugging showed me the
FFmpeg
import plugin was doing it.
Did we know we had this feature? I didn't!
The same does not happen on macOS. Instead I get an error
dialog
Post by Robert Hänggi
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Robert Hänggi
Post by Paul Licameli
telling me
Post by Paul Licameli
to use Import MIDI... in the menus. The reason for the
difference
Post by Robert Hänggi
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Robert Hänggi
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
may
relate to the conditional compilation in class DropTarget in
Project.cpp.
PRL
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Post by Paul Licameli
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Post by Robert Hänggi
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Robert Hänggi
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Post by Robert Hänggi
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
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Post by Robert Hänggi
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
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Post by Robert Hänggi
Post by Steve the Fiddle
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Gale Andrews
2017-04-02 18:28:30 UTC
Permalink
As I understand it, the point about MOD files (or tracker files as they are
sometimes called) is that they actually have PCM samples in them.
The file describes how to repeat/rearrange the samples.

I guess FFmpeg is figuring out the arranging without having the audio
data to do it with, so is trying to do so with the MIDI information on its
own.


Gale
Post by Paul Licameli
I know nothing about .mod files. No relation to .mid files? Or is it a
similar enough format?
What do we think is happening? Does ffmpeg misinterpret .mid files as if
some other format?
Somehow the bad renderings I hear get the melody somewhat right, but the
timbres wrong, and there are loud clicks in the result. It's weird.
PRL
Post by Steve the Fiddle
And the prize goes to Robert :-)
Yes it's a mod file.
I think the reason that FFmpeg gives some sound from MIDI files is an
accident. My guess is that libmodplug is trying to read them and is
using a generic "beep" tone in the absence of any audio data in the
file.
I've not found anything about MIDI support in FFmpeg, other than
everyone saying "FFmpeg does not support MIDI", but FFmpeg DOES
support MOD files via libmodplug.
So in response to Paul's question, I don't think we should drop mod
file support. I think we should make it work on all platforms and
document it.
Steve
Post by Robert Hänggi
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Try dragging this file into Audacity on Windows with FFmpeg.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p1d0ahqtt0qvg6n/GSLINGER.mid?dl=0
Sounds pretty good.
Is it some kind of mod file?
Robert
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Steve
Post by Paul Licameli
Should this awful thing be available on all platforms or on none? As now,
neither is the case.
As I said, there is some code specific to Mac, probably put there for other
reasons, but incidentally blocking import of MIDI by FFmpeg.
PRL
On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
That's amazing, I never knew FFmpeg could do that.
OK, so it's awful, truly awful, but could be of interest for people
wanting an easy way to make "chiptunes".
Steve
2017-04-01 13:01 GMT+02:00, Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
t
The rendering is so poor, perhaps we should disable this on Windows as
on
Mac. Did you try it? Awful.
Someone on the Audacity4blind mailing list mentioned it some weeks ago.
I did the same investigation as you with the same result.
It's really not worth keeping it until it is an official feature of FFMpeg.
To me, it sounds like some sort of "audio thumbnail".
Robert
Post by Paul Licameli
On Friday, March 31, 2017, Pokechu22
Huh, that's really odd.
I don't know why ffmpeg supports midi suddenly. Their site makes no
claims about midi support, and I can't find anything in the source
that implies it should...
(https://github.com/FFmpeg/FFmpeg/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=midi&type=
shows support for midi sample dumps (no clue what those are, but the
extension is sds), but not midi itself). Yet it works (both in
audacity, and with the standalone ffmpeg).
It also works via Import->Audio with "all files" selected, but not
when "all supported files" or "ffmpeg-compatible files" is selected.
I have no clue how... interesting find.
--Poke
On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 8:14 PM, Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
I just compiled Pokechu22's branch on Windows and imported a MIDI
file
and
Post by Paul Licameli
basic playback worked.
But I also made a discovery. I can drag and drop a .MID file onto
the
Audacity window and it renders (but badly, with wrong timbres!)
as
a
waveform. This happens even in master. Debugging showed me the
FFmpeg
import plugin was doing it.
Did we know we had this feature? I didn't!
The same does not happen on macOS. Instead I get an error dialog
telling me
Post by Paul Licameli
to use Import MIDI... in the menus. The reason for the difference
may
relate to the conditional compilation in class DropTarget in
Project.cpp.
PRL
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Post by Paul Licameli
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engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Steve the Fiddle
2017-04-02 19:22:40 UTC
Permalink
MIDI and MOD (modules) are very closely related.

From very early days of computer music, computers have been used to
play sequences of audio events - the fundamental concept of a
"sequencer". The first "music computer" I recall seeing was a
Fairlight CMI in a small London studio in the early '80s. I remember
being utterly astonished by this machine, with its ability to perform
"automatic double tracking", digital delay, and a "huge" library of
hundreds of sounds. This was before the arrival of MIDI, but a
continuation of the development from step sequencers and early drum
machines. Later versions of the Fairlight CMI supported MIDI.

Roll on a few years to the (much more affordable) Atari ST and
"trackers" were all the rage and remained popular into the '90s (I was
using ModPlug Tracker in the late '90s on Windows 3.11). Standards for
MOD files were "flexible" in the sense that there were many
variations. "Impulse Tracker" (running under MS-DOS) had its own .IT
file extension. "Fast Tracker" introduced the XM and XI formats and
"Scream Tracker" brought the S3M format. The formats were similar
enough that more "modern" (late '90s) trackers like ModPlug could
support all of the variants.

As MIDI became more widespread there was less need for sequencers to
handle sampling / synthesis, and MIDI sequencers controlling separate
(hardware or software) sound modules, gradually replaced trackers.
Trackers still remain as a niche interest, with at least one tracker
still under development - OpenMPT, the direct descendant of ModPlug
tracker that I used 20 years ago:
https://source.openmpt.org/browse/openmpt/

(I feel all nostalgic now ;-)

Steve
Post by Gale Andrews
As I understand it, the point about MOD files (or tracker files as they are
sometimes called) is that they actually have PCM samples in them.
The file describes how to repeat/rearrange the samples.
I guess FFmpeg is figuring out the arranging without having the audio
data to do it with, so is trying to do so with the MIDI information on its
own.
Gale
Post by Paul Licameli
I know nothing about .mod files. No relation to .mid files? Or is it a
similar enough format?
What do we think is happening? Does ffmpeg misinterpret .mid files as if
some other format?
Somehow the bad renderings I hear get the melody somewhat right, but the
timbres wrong, and there are loud clicks in the result. It's weird.
PRL
Post by Steve the Fiddle
And the prize goes to Robert :-)
Yes it's a mod file.
I think the reason that FFmpeg gives some sound from MIDI files is an
accident. My guess is that libmodplug is trying to read them and is
using a generic "beep" tone in the absence of any audio data in the
file.
I've not found anything about MIDI support in FFmpeg, other than
everyone saying "FFmpeg does not support MIDI", but FFmpeg DOES
support MOD files via libmodplug.
So in response to Paul's question, I don't think we should drop mod
file support. I think we should make it work on all platforms and
document it.
Steve
Post by Robert Hänggi
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Try dragging this file into Audacity on Windows with FFmpeg.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p1d0ahqtt0qvg6n/GSLINGER.mid?dl=0
Sounds pretty good.
Is it some kind of mod file?
Robert
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Steve
Post by Paul Licameli
Should this awful thing be available on all platforms or on none? As now,
neither is the case.
As I said, there is some code specific to Mac, probably put there for other
reasons, but incidentally blocking import of MIDI by FFmpeg.
PRL
On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
That's amazing, I never knew FFmpeg could do that.
OK, so it's awful, truly awful, but could be of interest for people
wanting an easy way to make "chiptunes".
Steve
2017-04-01 13:01 GMT+02:00, Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
t
The rendering is so poor, perhaps we should disable this on Windows as
on
Mac. Did you try it? Awful.
Someone on the Audacity4blind mailing list mentioned it some weeks ago.
I did the same investigation as you with the same result.
It's really not worth keeping it until it is an official feature of
FFMpeg.
To me, it sounds like some sort of "audio thumbnail".
Robert
Post by Paul Licameli
On Friday, March 31, 2017, Pokechu22
Huh, that's really odd.
I don't know why ffmpeg supports midi suddenly. Their site makes no
claims about midi support, and I can't find anything in the source
that implies it should...
(https://github.com/FFmpeg/FFmpeg/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=midi&type=
shows support for midi sample dumps (no clue what those are, but the
extension is sds), but not midi itself). Yet it works (both in
audacity, and with the standalone ffmpeg).
It also works via Import->Audio with "all files" selected, but not
when "all supported files" or "ffmpeg-compatible files" is selected.
I have no clue how... interesting find.
--Poke
On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 8:14 PM, Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
I just compiled Pokechu22's branch on Windows and imported a MIDI
file
and
Post by Paul Licameli
basic playback worked.
But I also made a discovery. I can drag and drop a .MID file
onto
the
Audacity window and it renders (but badly, with wrong timbres!)
as
a
waveform. This happens even in master. Debugging showed me the
FFmpeg
import plugin was doing it.
Did we know we had this feature? I didn't!
The same does not happen on macOS. Instead I get an error dialog
telling me
Post by Paul Licameli
to use Import MIDI... in the menus. The reason for the
difference
may
relate to the conditional compilation in class DropTarget in
Project.cpp.
PRL
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Post by Paul Licameli
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engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Robert Hänggi
2017-04-02 19:52:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve the Fiddle
MIDI and MOD (modules) are very closely related.
From very early days of computer music, computers have been used to
play sequences of audio events - the fundamental concept of a
"sequencer". The first "music computer" I recall seeing was a
Fairlight CMI in a small London studio in the early '80s. I remember
being utterly astonished by this machine, with its ability to perform
"automatic double tracking", digital delay, and a "huge" library of
hundreds of sounds. This was before the arrival of MIDI, but a
continuation of the development from step sequencers and early drum
machines. Later versions of the Fairlight CMI supported MIDI.
Roll on a few years to the (much more affordable) Atari ST and
"trackers" were all the rage and remained popular into the '90s (I was
using ModPlug Tracker in the late '90s on Windows 3.11). Standards for
MOD files were "flexible" in the sense that there were many
variations. "Impulse Tracker" (running under MS-DOS) had its own .IT
file extension. "Fast Tracker" introduced the XM and XI formats and
"Scream Tracker" brought the S3M format. The formats were similar
enough that more "modern" (late '90s) trackers like ModPlug could
support all of the variants.
As MIDI became more widespread there was less need for sequencers to
handle sampling / synthesis, and MIDI sequencers controlling separate
(hardware or software) sound modules, gradually replaced trackers.
Trackers still remain as a niche interest, with at least one tracker
still under development - OpenMPT, the direct descendant of ModPlug
https://source.openmpt.org/browse/openmpt/
Yep, I've downloaded it some weeks ago--after neglecting it for some
years. It is fairly accessible (except for the essential parts...)

Mod files are still important for some video games and there's a big
sub culture around it.

I don't know which program used *.mid for its module files.
However, I think it should be possible to test if it is a midi or
module file on import.
However, not of high priority yet.

Robert
Post by Steve the Fiddle
(I feel all nostalgic now ;-)
Steve
Post by Gale Andrews
As I understand it, the point about MOD files (or tracker files as they are
sometimes called) is that they actually have PCM samples in them.
The file describes how to repeat/rearrange the samples.
I guess FFmpeg is figuring out the arranging without having the audio
data to do it with, so is trying to do so with the MIDI information on its
own.
Gale
Post by Paul Licameli
I know nothing about .mod files. No relation to .mid files? Or is it a
similar enough format?
What do we think is happening? Does ffmpeg misinterpret .mid files as if
some other format?
Somehow the bad renderings I hear get the melody somewhat right, but the
timbres wrong, and there are loud clicks in the result. It's weird.
PRL
On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 2:28 PM, Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
And the prize goes to Robert :-)
Yes it's a mod file.
I think the reason that FFmpeg gives some sound from MIDI files is an
accident. My guess is that libmodplug is trying to read them and is
using a generic "beep" tone in the absence of any audio data in the
file.
I've not found anything about MIDI support in FFmpeg, other than
everyone saying "FFmpeg does not support MIDI", but FFmpeg DOES
support MOD files via libmodplug.
So in response to Paul's question, I don't think we should drop mod
file support. I think we should make it work on all platforms and
document it.
Steve
2017-04-01 17:36 GMT+02:00, Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Try dragging this file into Audacity on Windows with FFmpeg.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p1d0ahqtt0qvg6n/GSLINGER.mid?dl=0
Sounds pretty good.
Is it some kind of mod file?
Robert
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Steve
Post by Paul Licameli
Should this awful thing be available on all platforms or on none?
As
now,
neither is the case.
As I said, there is some code specific to Mac, probably put there
for
other
reasons, but incidentally blocking import of MIDI by FFmpeg.
PRL
On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
That's amazing, I never knew FFmpeg could do that.
OK, so it's awful, truly awful, but could be of interest for people
wanting an easy way to make "chiptunes".
Steve
2017-04-01 13:01 GMT+02:00, Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
t
The rendering is so poor, perhaps we should disable this on
Windows as
on
Mac. Did you try it? Awful.
Someone on the Audacity4blind mailing list mentioned it some weeks
ago.
I did the same investigation as you with the same result.
It's really not worth keeping it until it is an official feature of
FFMpeg.
To me, it sounds like some sort of "audio thumbnail".
Robert
Post by Paul Licameli
On Friday, March 31, 2017, Pokechu22
Huh, that's really odd.
I don't know why ffmpeg supports midi suddenly. Their site makes
no
claims about midi support, and I can't find anything in the source
that implies it should...
(https://github.com/FFmpeg/FFmpeg/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=midi&type=
shows support for midi sample dumps (no clue what those are, but
the
extension is sds), but not midi itself). Yet it works (both in
audacity, and with the standalone ffmpeg).
It also works via Import->Audio with "all files" selected, but not
when "all supported files" or "ffmpeg-compatible files" is
selected.
I have no clue how... interesting find.
--Poke
On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 8:14 PM, Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
I just compiled Pokechu22's branch on Windows and imported a
MIDI
file
and
Post by Paul Licameli
basic playback worked.
But I also made a discovery. I can drag and drop a .MID file
onto
the
Audacity window and it renders (but badly, with wrong timbres!)
as
a
waveform. This happens even in master. Debugging showed me
the
FFmpeg
import plugin was doing it.
Did we know we had this feature? I didn't!
The same does not happen on macOS. Instead I get an error
dialog
telling me
Post by Paul Licameli
to use Import MIDI... in the menus. The reason for the
difference
may
relate to the conditional compilation in class DropTarget in
Project.cpp.
PRL
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Post by Paul Licameli
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engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
2017-04-03 15:52:47 UTC
Permalink
I used in MS-DOS something called MODEDIT. It supported the famous .mod
4-track format. THere were also other formats, like s3m (I used
InertiaPlayer for those). Currently, as Steve says, lots of tracker groups
going on!
Post by Steve the Fiddle
MIDI and MOD (modules) are very closely related.
From very early days of computer music, computers have been used to
play sequences of audio events - the fundamental concept of a
"sequencer". The first "music computer" I recall seeing was a
Fairlight CMI in a small London studio in the early '80s. I remember
being utterly astonished by this machine, with its ability to perform
"automatic double tracking", digital delay, and a "huge" library of
hundreds of sounds. This was before the arrival of MIDI, but a
continuation of the development from step sequencers and early drum
machines. Later versions of the Fairlight CMI supported MIDI.
Roll on a few years to the (much more affordable) Atari ST and
"trackers" were all the rage and remained popular into the '90s (I was
using ModPlug Tracker in the late '90s on Windows 3.11). Standards for
MOD files were "flexible" in the sense that there were many
variations. "Impulse Tracker" (running under MS-DOS) had its own .IT
file extension. "Fast Tracker" introduced the XM and XI formats and
"Scream Tracker" brought the S3M format. The formats were similar
enough that more "modern" (late '90s) trackers like ModPlug could
support all of the variants.
As MIDI became more widespread there was less need for sequencers to
handle sampling / synthesis, and MIDI sequencers controlling separate
(hardware or software) sound modules, gradually replaced trackers.
Trackers still remain as a niche interest, with at least one tracker
still under development - OpenMPT, the direct descendant of ModPlug
https://source.openmpt.org/browse/openmpt/
(I feel all nostalgic now ;-)
Steve
Post by Gale Andrews
As I understand it, the point about MOD files (or tracker files as they
are
Post by Gale Andrews
sometimes called) is that they actually have PCM samples in them.
The file describes how to repeat/rearrange the samples.
I guess FFmpeg is figuring out the arranging without having the audio
data to do it with, so is trying to do so with the MIDI information on
its
Post by Gale Andrews
own.
Gale
Post by Paul Licameli
I know nothing about .mod files. No relation to .mid files? Or is it a
similar enough format?
What do we think is happening? Does ffmpeg misinterpret .mid files as
if
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Paul Licameli
some other format?
Somehow the bad renderings I hear get the melody somewhat right, but the
timbres wrong, and there are loud clicks in the result. It's weird.
PRL
On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 2:28 PM, Steve the Fiddle <
Post by Steve the Fiddle
And the prize goes to Robert :-)
Yes it's a mod file.
I think the reason that FFmpeg gives some sound from MIDI files is an
accident. My guess is that libmodplug is trying to read them and is
using a generic "beep" tone in the absence of any audio data in the
file.
I've not found anything about MIDI support in FFmpeg, other than
everyone saying "FFmpeg does not support MIDI", but FFmpeg DOES
support MOD files via libmodplug.
So in response to Paul's question, I don't think we should drop mod
file support. I think we should make it work on all platforms and
document it.
Steve
2017-04-01 17:36 GMT+02:00, Steve the Fiddle <
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Try dragging this file into Audacity on Windows with FFmpeg.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p1d0ahqtt0qvg6n/GSLINGER.mid?dl=0
Sounds pretty good.
Is it some kind of mod file?
Robert
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Steve
Post by Paul Licameli
Should this awful thing be available on all platforms or on none?
As
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
now,
neither is the case.
As I said, there is some code specific to Mac, probably put there
for
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
other
reasons, but incidentally blocking import of MIDI by FFmpeg.
PRL
On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
That's amazing, I never knew FFmpeg could do that.
OK, so it's awful, truly awful, but could be of interest for
people
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
wanting an easy way to make "chiptunes".
Steve
2017-04-01 13:01 GMT+02:00, Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
t
The rendering is so poor, perhaps we should disable this on
Windows as
on
Mac. Did you try it? Awful.
Someone on the Audacity4blind mailing list mentioned it some
weeks
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
ago.
I did the same investigation as you with the same result.
It's really not worth keeping it until it is an official
feature of
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
FFMpeg.
To me, it sounds like some sort of "audio thumbnail".
Robert
Post by Paul Licameli
On Friday, March 31, 2017, Pokechu22
Huh, that's really odd.
I don't know why ffmpeg supports midi suddenly. Their site
makes
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
no
claims about midi support, and I can't find anything in the
source
that implies it should...
(https://github.com/FFmpeg/FFmpeg/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&
q=midi&type=
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
shows support for midi sample dumps (no clue what those are,
but
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
the
extension is sds), but not midi itself). Yet it works (both
in
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
audacity, and with the standalone ffmpeg).
It also works via Import->Audio with "all files" selected, but
not
when "all supported files" or "ffmpeg-compatible files" is
selected.
I have no clue how... interesting find.
--Poke
On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 8:14 PM, Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
I just compiled Pokechu22's branch on Windows and imported a
MIDI
file
and
Post by Paul Licameli
basic playback worked.
But I also made a discovery. I can drag and drop a .MID
file
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
onto
the
Audacity window and it renders (but badly, with wrong
timbres!)
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
as
a
waveform. This happens even in master. Debugging showed me
the
FFmpeg
import plugin was doing it.
Did we know we had this feature? I didn't!
The same does not happen on macOS. Instead I get an error
dialog
telling me
Post by Paul Licameli
to use Import MIDI... in the menus. The reason for the
difference
may
relate to the conditional compilation in class DropTarget in
Project.cpp.
PRL
------------------------------
------------------------------
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
------------------
Post by Paul Licameli
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
most
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
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Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
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Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
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Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
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Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
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Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
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Steve the Fiddle
2017-04-03 16:57:33 UTC
Permalink
I would guess that when Audacity has better support for MIDI that we
would want to be able to import note tracks by dropping MIDI files
into the application? If so, then we probably do need to block FFmpeg
from rendering MID files so that Audacity can handle them properly.

Steve

On 3 April 2017 at 16:52, Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
I used in MS-DOS something called MODEDIT. It supported the famous .mod
4-track format. THere were also other formats, like s3m (I used
InertiaPlayer for those). Currently, as Steve says, lots of tracker groups
going on!
Post by Steve the Fiddle
MIDI and MOD (modules) are very closely related.
Post by Steve the Fiddle
From very early days of computer music, computers have been used to
play sequences of audio events - the fundamental concept of a
"sequencer". The first "music computer" I recall seeing was a
Fairlight CMI in a small London studio in the early '80s. I remember
being utterly astonished by this machine, with its ability to perform
"automatic double tracking", digital delay, and a "huge" library of
hundreds of sounds. This was before the arrival of MIDI, but a
continuation of the development from step sequencers and early drum
machines. Later versions of the Fairlight CMI supported MIDI.
Roll on a few years to the (much more affordable) Atari ST and
"trackers" were all the rage and remained popular into the '90s (I was
using ModPlug Tracker in the late '90s on Windows 3.11). Standards for
MOD files were "flexible" in the sense that there were many
variations. "Impulse Tracker" (running under MS-DOS) had its own .IT
file extension. "Fast Tracker" introduced the XM and XI formats and
"Scream Tracker" brought the S3M format. The formats were similar
enough that more "modern" (late '90s) trackers like ModPlug could
support all of the variants.
As MIDI became more widespread there was less need for sequencers to
handle sampling / synthesis, and MIDI sequencers controlling separate
(hardware or software) sound modules, gradually replaced trackers.
Trackers still remain as a niche interest, with at least one tracker
still under development - OpenMPT, the direct descendant of ModPlug
https://source.openmpt.org/browse/openmpt/
(I feel all nostalgic now ;-)
Steve
Post by Steve the Fiddle
As I understand it, the point about MOD files (or tracker files as they are
sometimes called) is that they actually have PCM samples in them.
The file describes how to repeat/rearrange the samples.
I guess FFmpeg is figuring out the arranging without having the audio
data to do it with, so is trying to do so with the MIDI information on its
own.
Gale
Post by Paul Licameli
I know nothing about .mod files. No relation to .mid files? Or is it a
similar enough format?
What do we think is happening? Does ffmpeg misinterpret .mid files as if
some other format?
Somehow the bad renderings I hear get the melody somewhat right, but the
timbres wrong, and there are loud clicks in the result. It's weird.
PRL
On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 2:28 PM, Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
And the prize goes to Robert :-)
Yes it's a mod file.
I think the reason that FFmpeg gives some sound from MIDI files is an
accident. My guess is that libmodplug is trying to read them and is
using a generic "beep" tone in the absence of any audio data in the
file.
I've not found anything about MIDI support in FFmpeg, other than
everyone saying "FFmpeg does not support MIDI", but FFmpeg DOES
support MOD files via libmodplug.
So in response to Paul's question, I don't think we should drop mod
file support. I think we should make it work on all platforms and
document it.
Steve
2017-04-01 17:36 GMT+02:00, Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Try dragging this file into Audacity on Windows with FFmpeg.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p1d0ahqtt0qvg6n/GSLINGER.mid?dl=0
Sounds pretty good.
Is it some kind of mod file?
Robert
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Steve
Post by Paul Licameli
Should this awful thing be available on all platforms or on none?
As
now,
neither is the case.
As I said, there is some code specific to Mac, probably put there
for
other
reasons, but incidentally blocking import of MIDI by FFmpeg.
PRL
On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
That's amazing, I never knew FFmpeg could do that.
OK, so it's awful, truly awful, but could be of interest for people
wanting an easy way to make "chiptunes".
Steve
2017-04-01 13:01 GMT+02:00, Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
t
The rendering is so poor, perhaps we should disable this on
Windows as
on
Mac. Did you try it? Awful.
Someone on the Audacity4blind mailing list mentioned it some weeks
ago.
I did the same investigation as you with the same result.
It's really not worth keeping it until it is an official feature of
FFMpeg.
To me, it sounds like some sort of "audio thumbnail".
Robert
Post by Paul Licameli
On Friday, March 31, 2017, Pokechu22
Huh, that's really odd.
I don't know why ffmpeg supports midi suddenly. Their site
makes
no
claims about midi support, and I can't find anything in the
source
that implies it should...
(https://github.com/FFmpeg/FFmpeg/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=midi&type=
shows support for midi sample dumps (no clue what those are,
but
the
extension is sds), but not midi itself). Yet it works (both in
audacity, and with the standalone ffmpeg).
It also works via Import->Audio with "all files" selected, but
not
when "all supported files" or "ffmpeg-compatible files" is
selected.
I have no clue how... interesting find.
--Poke
On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 8:14 PM, Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
I just compiled Pokechu22's branch on Windows and imported
a
MIDI
file
and
Post by Paul Licameli
basic playback worked.
But I also made a discovery. I can drag and drop a .MID
file
onto
the
Audacity window and it renders (but badly, with wrong
timbres!)
as
a
waveform. This happens even in master. Debugging showed
me
the
FFmpeg
import plugin was doing it.
Did we know we had this feature? I didn't!
The same does not happen on macOS. Instead I get an error
dialog
telling me
Post by Paul Licameli
to use Import MIDI... in the menus. The reason for the
difference
may
relate to the conditional compilation in class DropTarget
in
Project.cpp.
PRL
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Post by Paul Licameli
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Paul Licameli
2017-04-03 17:43:02 UTC
Permalink
importing as a Note track surely makes more sense. Making mix& render
convert MIDI to a wave track would make sense too if there is a good
library to add to our lib-src.
Post by Steve the Fiddle
I would guess that when Audacity has better support for MIDI that we
would want to be able to import note tracks by dropping MIDI files
into the application? If so, then we probably do need to block FFmpeg
from rendering MID files so that Audacity can handle them properly.
Steve
On 3 April 2017 at 16:52, Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
I used in MS-DOS something called MODEDIT. It supported the famous .mod
4-track format. THere were also other formats, like s3m (I used
InertiaPlayer for those). Currently, as Steve says, lots of tracker
groups
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
going on!
On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 4:22 PM, Steve the Fiddle <
Post by Steve the Fiddle
MIDI and MOD (modules) are very closely related.
Post by Steve the Fiddle
From very early days of computer music, computers have been used to
play sequences of audio events - the fundamental concept of a
"sequencer". The first "music computer" I recall seeing was a
Fairlight CMI in a small London studio in the early '80s. I remember
being utterly astonished by this machine, with its ability to perform
"automatic double tracking", digital delay, and a "huge" library of
hundreds of sounds. This was before the arrival of MIDI, but a
continuation of the development from step sequencers and early drum
machines. Later versions of the Fairlight CMI supported MIDI.
Roll on a few years to the (much more affordable) Atari ST and
"trackers" were all the rage and remained popular into the '90s (I was
using ModPlug Tracker in the late '90s on Windows 3.11). Standards for
MOD files were "flexible" in the sense that there were many
variations. "Impulse Tracker" (running under MS-DOS) had its own .IT
file extension. "Fast Tracker" introduced the XM and XI formats and
"Scream Tracker" brought the S3M format. The formats were similar
enough that more "modern" (late '90s) trackers like ModPlug could
support all of the variants.
As MIDI became more widespread there was less need for sequencers to
handle sampling / synthesis, and MIDI sequencers controlling separate
(hardware or software) sound modules, gradually replaced trackers.
Trackers still remain as a niche interest, with at least one tracker
still under development - OpenMPT, the direct descendant of ModPlug
https://source.openmpt.org/browse/openmpt/
(I feel all nostalgic now ;-)
Steve
Post by Steve the Fiddle
As I understand it, the point about MOD files (or tracker files as
they
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
are
sometimes called) is that they actually have PCM samples in them.
The file describes how to repeat/rearrange the samples.
I guess FFmpeg is figuring out the arranging without having the audio
data to do it with, so is trying to do so with the MIDI information on its
own.
Gale
Post by Paul Licameli
I know nothing about .mod files. No relation to .mid files? Or is
it
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
a
similar enough format?
What do we think is happening? Does ffmpeg misinterpret .mid files
as
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
if
some other format?
Somehow the bad renderings I hear get the melody somewhat right, but the
timbres wrong, and there are loud clicks in the result. It's weird.
PRL
On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 2:28 PM, Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
And the prize goes to Robert :-)
Yes it's a mod file.
I think the reason that FFmpeg gives some sound from MIDI files is
an
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
accident. My guess is that libmodplug is trying to read them and is
using a generic "beep" tone in the absence of any audio data in the
file.
I've not found anything about MIDI support in FFmpeg, other than
everyone saying "FFmpeg does not support MIDI", but FFmpeg DOES
support MOD files via libmodplug.
So in response to Paul's question, I don't think we should drop mod
file support. I think we should make it work on all platforms and
document it.
Steve
<javascript:;>>
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
2017-04-01 17:36 GMT+02:00, Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Try dragging this file into Audacity on Windows with FFmpeg.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p1d0ahqtt0qvg6n/GSLINGER.mid?dl=0
Sounds pretty good.
Is it some kind of mod file?
Robert
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Steve
<javascript:;>>
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Should this awful thing be available on all platforms or on
none?
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
As
now,
neither is the case.
As I said, there is some code specific to Mac, probably put
there
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
for
other
reasons, but incidentally blocking import of MIDI by FFmpeg.
PRL
On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
That's amazing, I never knew FFmpeg could do that.
OK, so it's awful, truly awful, but could be of interest for people
wanting an easy way to make "chiptunes".
Steve
On 1 April 2017 at 12:30, Robert HÀnggi <
2017-04-01 13:01 GMT+02:00, Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
t
The rendering is so poor, perhaps we should disable this on
Windows as
on
Mac. Did you try it? Awful.
Someone on the Audacity4blind mailing list mentioned it some
weeks
ago.
I did the same investigation as you with the same result.
It's really not worth keeping it until it is an official
feature of
FFMpeg.
To me, it sounds like some sort of "audio thumbnail".
Robert
Post by Paul Licameli
On Friday, March 31, 2017, Pokechu22
Huh, that's really odd.
I don't know why ffmpeg supports midi suddenly. Their site
makes
no
claims about midi support, and I can't find anything in the
source
that implies it should...
(https://github.com/FFmpeg/FFmpeg/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&
q=midi&type=
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
shows support for midi sample dumps (no clue what those
are,
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
but
the
extension is sds), but not midi itself). Yet it works
(both
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
in
audacity, and with the standalone ffmpeg).
It also works via Import->Audio with "all files" selected,
but
not
when "all supported files" or "ffmpeg-compatible files" is
selected.
I have no clue how... interesting find.
--Poke
On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 8:14 PM, Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
I just compiled Pokechu22's branch on Windows and
imported
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
a
MIDI
file
and
Post by Paul Licameli
basic playback worked.
But I also made a discovery. I can drag and drop a .MID
file
onto
the
Audacity window and it renders (but badly, with wrong
timbres!)
as
a
waveform. This happens even in master. Debugging showed
me
the
FFmpeg
import plugin was doing it.
Did we know we had this feature? I didn't!
The same does not happen on macOS. Instead I get an
error
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
dialog
telling me
Post by Paul Licameli
to use Import MIDI... in the menus. The reason for the
difference
may
relate to the conditional compilation in class DropTarget
in
Project.cpp.
PRL
------------------------------
------------------------------
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
------------------
Post by Paul Licameli
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the
world's
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
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Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
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engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org!
http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Post by Steve the Fiddle
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<javascript:;>
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
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Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
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Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
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lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
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Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
------------------------------
------------------------------
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Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
------------------
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lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
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------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
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Gale Andrews
2017-04-03 18:03:05 UTC
Permalink
Audacity should drag and drop to open its own project format too
(IMO).


Gale
Post by Paul Licameli
importing as a Note track surely makes more sense. Making mix& render
convert MIDI to a wave track would make sense too if there is a good library
to add to our lib-src.
Post by Steve the Fiddle
I would guess that when Audacity has better support for MIDI that we
would want to be able to import note tracks by dropping MIDI files
into the application? If so, then we probably do need to block FFmpeg
from rendering MID files so that Audacity can handle them properly.
Steve
On 3 April 2017 at 16:52, Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
I used in MS-DOS something called MODEDIT. It supported the famous .mod
4-track format. THere were also other formats, like s3m (I used
InertiaPlayer for those). Currently, as Steve says, lots of tracker groups
going on!
On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 4:22 PM, Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
MIDI and MOD (modules) are very closely related.
Post by Steve the Fiddle
From very early days of computer music, computers have been used to
play sequences of audio events - the fundamental concept of a
"sequencer". The first "music computer" I recall seeing was a
Fairlight CMI in a small London studio in the early '80s. I remember
being utterly astonished by this machine, with its ability to perform
"automatic double tracking", digital delay, and a "huge" library of
hundreds of sounds. This was before the arrival of MIDI, but a
continuation of the development from step sequencers and early drum
machines. Later versions of the Fairlight CMI supported MIDI.
Roll on a few years to the (much more affordable) Atari ST and
"trackers" were all the rage and remained popular into the '90s (I was
using ModPlug Tracker in the late '90s on Windows 3.11). Standards for
MOD files were "flexible" in the sense that there were many
variations. "Impulse Tracker" (running under MS-DOS) had its own .IT
file extension. "Fast Tracker" introduced the XM and XI formats and
"Scream Tracker" brought the S3M format. The formats were similar
enough that more "modern" (late '90s) trackers like ModPlug could
support all of the variants.
As MIDI became more widespread there was less need for sequencers to
handle sampling / synthesis, and MIDI sequencers controlling separate
(hardware or software) sound modules, gradually replaced trackers.
Trackers still remain as a niche interest, with at least one tracker
still under development - OpenMPT, the direct descendant of ModPlug
https://source.openmpt.org/browse/openmpt/
(I feel all nostalgic now ;-)
Steve
Post by Steve the Fiddle
As I understand it, the point about MOD files (or tracker files as they
are
sometimes called) is that they actually have PCM samples in them.
The file describes how to repeat/rearrange the samples.
I guess FFmpeg is figuring out the arranging without having the audio
data to do it with, so is trying to do so with the MIDI information on
its
own.
Gale
Post by Paul Licameli
I know nothing about .mod files. No relation to .mid files? Or is
it
a
similar enough format?
What do we think is happening? Does ffmpeg misinterpret .mid files as
if
some other format?
Somehow the bad renderings I hear get the melody somewhat right, but the
timbres wrong, and there are loud clicks in the result. It's weird.
PRL
On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 2:28 PM, Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
And the prize goes to Robert :-)
Yes it's a mod file.
I think the reason that FFmpeg gives some sound from MIDI files is an
accident. My guess is that libmodplug is trying to read them and is
using a generic "beep" tone in the absence of any audio data in the
file.
I've not found anything about MIDI support in FFmpeg, other than
everyone saying "FFmpeg does not support MIDI", but FFmpeg DOES
support MOD files via libmodplug.
So in response to Paul's question, I don't think we should drop mod
file support. I think we should make it work on all platforms and
document it.
Steve
2017-04-01 17:36 GMT+02:00, Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Try dragging this file into Audacity on Windows with FFmpeg.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p1d0ahqtt0qvg6n/GSLINGER.mid?dl=0
Sounds pretty good.
Is it some kind of mod file?
Robert
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Steve
On 1 April 2017 at 15:58, Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
Should this awful thing be available on all platforms or on none?
As
now,
neither is the case.
As I said, there is some code specific to Mac, probably put there
for
other
reasons, but incidentally blocking import of MIDI by FFmpeg.
PRL
On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
That's amazing, I never knew FFmpeg could do that.
OK, so it's awful, truly awful, but could be of interest for
people
wanting an easy way to make "chiptunes".
Steve
On 1 April 2017 at 12:30, Robert Hänggi
2017-04-01 13:01 GMT+02:00, Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
t
The rendering is so poor, perhaps we should disable this on
Windows as
on
Mac. Did you try it? Awful.
Someone on the Audacity4blind mailing list mentioned it some
weeks
ago.
I did the same investigation as you with the same result.
It's really not worth keeping it until it is an official
feature of
FFMpeg.
To me, it sounds like some sort of "audio thumbnail".
Robert
Post by Paul Licameli
On Friday, March 31, 2017, Pokechu22
Huh, that's really odd.
I don't know why ffmpeg supports midi suddenly. Their
site
makes
no
claims about midi support, and I can't find anything in
the
source
that implies it should...
(https://github.com/FFmpeg/FFmpeg/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=midi&type=
shows support for midi sample dumps (no clue what those
are,
but
the
extension is sds), but not midi itself). Yet it works
(both
in
audacity, and with the standalone ffmpeg).
It also works via Import->Audio with "all files" selected,
but
not
when "all supported files" or "ffmpeg-compatible files" is
selected.
I have no clue how... interesting find.
--Poke
On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 8:14 PM, Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
I just compiled Pokechu22's branch on Windows and
imported
a
MIDI
file
and
Post by Paul Licameli
basic playback worked.
But I also made a discovery. I can drag and drop a .MID
file
onto
the
Audacity window and it renders (but badly, with wrong
timbres!)
as
a
waveform. This happens even in master. Debugging
showed
me
the
FFmpeg
import plugin was doing it.
Did we know we had this feature? I didn't!
The same does not happen on macOS. Instead I get an
error
dialog
telling me
Post by Paul Licameli
to use Import MIDI... in the menus. The reason for the
difference
may
relate to the conditional compilation in class
DropTarget
in
Project.cpp.
PRL
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
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Paul Licameli
2017-04-03 19:48:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gale Andrews
Audacity should drag and drop to open its own project format too
(IMO).
Gale
I concur.
PRL
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Paul Licameli
importing as a Note track surely makes more sense. Making mix& render
convert MIDI to a wave track would make sense too if there is a good
library
Post by Paul Licameli
to add to our lib-src.
Post by Steve the Fiddle
I would guess that when Audacity has better support for MIDI that we
would want to be able to import note tracks by dropping MIDI files
into the application? If so, then we probably do need to block FFmpeg
from rendering MID files so that Audacity can handle them properly.
Steve
On 3 April 2017 at 16:52, Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
I used in MS-DOS something called MODEDIT. It supported the famous
.mod
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
4-track format. THere were also other formats, like s3m (I used
InertiaPlayer for those). Currently, as Steve says, lots of tracker groups
going on!
On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 4:22 PM, Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
MIDI and MOD (modules) are very closely related.
Post by Steve the Fiddle
From very early days of computer music, computers have been used to
play sequences of audio events - the fundamental concept of a
"sequencer". The first "music computer" I recall seeing was a
Fairlight CMI in a small London studio in the early '80s. I remember
being utterly astonished by this machine, with its ability to perform
"automatic double tracking", digital delay, and a "huge" library of
hundreds of sounds. This was before the arrival of MIDI, but a
continuation of the development from step sequencers and early drum
machines. Later versions of the Fairlight CMI supported MIDI.
Roll on a few years to the (much more affordable) Atari ST and
"trackers" were all the rage and remained popular into the '90s (I
was
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
using ModPlug Tracker in the late '90s on Windows 3.11). Standards
for
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
MOD files were "flexible" in the sense that there were many
variations. "Impulse Tracker" (running under MS-DOS) had its own .IT
file extension. "Fast Tracker" introduced the XM and XI formats and
"Scream Tracker" brought the S3M format. The formats were similar
enough that more "modern" (late '90s) trackers like ModPlug could
support all of the variants.
As MIDI became more widespread there was less need for sequencers to
handle sampling / synthesis, and MIDI sequencers controlling separate
(hardware or software) sound modules, gradually replaced trackers.
Trackers still remain as a niche interest, with at least one tracker
still under development - OpenMPT, the direct descendant of ModPlug
https://source.openmpt.org/browse/openmpt/
(I feel all nostalgic now ;-)
Steve
Post by Steve the Fiddle
As I understand it, the point about MOD files (or tracker files as they
are
sometimes called) is that they actually have PCM samples in them.
The file describes how to repeat/rearrange the samples.
I guess FFmpeg is figuring out the arranging without having the
audio
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
data to do it with, so is trying to do so with the MIDI information on
its
own.
Gale
Post by Paul Licameli
I know nothing about .mod files. No relation to .mid files? Or
is
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
it
a
similar enough format?
What do we think is happening? Does ffmpeg misinterpret .mid
files
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
as
if
some other format?
Somehow the bad renderings I hear get the melody somewhat right,
but
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
the
timbres wrong, and there are loud clicks in the result. It's
weird.
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
PRL
On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 2:28 PM, Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
And the prize goes to Robert :-)
Yes it's a mod file.
I think the reason that FFmpeg gives some sound from MIDI files
is
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
an
accident. My guess is that libmodplug is trying to read them and
is
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
using a generic "beep" tone in the absence of any audio data in
the
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
file.
I've not found anything about MIDI support in FFmpeg, other than
everyone saying "FFmpeg does not support MIDI", but FFmpeg DOES
support MOD files via libmodplug.
So in response to Paul's question, I don't think we should drop
mod
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
file support. I think we should make it work on all platforms and
document it.
Steve
2017-04-01 17:36 GMT+02:00, Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Try dragging this file into Audacity on Windows with FFmpeg.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p1d0ahqtt0qvg6n/GSLINGER.mid?dl=0
Sounds pretty good.
Is it some kind of mod file?
Robert
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Steve
On 1 April 2017 at 15:58, Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
Should this awful thing be available on all platforms or on
none?
As
now,
neither is the case.
As I said, there is some code specific to Mac, probably put
there
for
other
reasons, but incidentally blocking import of MIDI by FFmpeg.
PRL
On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
That's amazing, I never knew FFmpeg could do that.
OK, so it's awful, truly awful, but could be of interest for
people
wanting an easy way to make "chiptunes".
Steve
On 1 April 2017 at 12:30, Robert HÀnggi
2017-04-01 13:01 GMT+02:00, Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
t
The rendering is so poor, perhaps we should disable this
on
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Windows as
on
Mac. Did you try it? Awful.
Someone on the Audacity4blind mailing list mentioned it
some
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
weeks
ago.
I did the same investigation as you with the same result.
It's really not worth keeping it until it is an official
feature of
FFMpeg.
To me, it sounds like some sort of "audio thumbnail".
Robert
Post by Paul Licameli
On Friday, March 31, 2017, Pokechu22
Huh, that's really odd.
I don't know why ffmpeg supports midi suddenly. Their
site
makes
no
claims about midi support, and I can't find anything in
the
source
that implies it should...
(https://github.com/FFmpeg/
FFmpeg/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=midi&type=
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
shows support for midi sample dumps (no clue what those
are,
but
the
extension is sds), but not midi itself). Yet it works
(both
in
audacity, and with the standalone ffmpeg).
It also works via Import->Audio with "all files"
selected,
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
but
not
when "all supported files" or "ffmpeg-compatible files"
is
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
selected.
I have no clue how... interesting find.
--Poke
On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 8:14 PM, Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
I just compiled Pokechu22's branch on Windows and
imported
a
MIDI
file
and
Post by Paul Licameli
basic playback worked.
But I also made a discovery. I can drag and drop a
.MID
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
file
onto
the
Audacity window and it renders (but badly, with wrong
timbres!)
as
a
waveform. This happens even in master. Debugging
showed
me
the
FFmpeg
import plugin was doing it.
Did we know we had this feature? I didn't!
The same does not happen on macOS. Instead I get an
error
dialog
telling me
Post by Paul Licameli
to use Import MIDI... in the menus. The reason for
the
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
difference
may
relate to the conditional compilation in class
DropTarget
in
Project.cpp.
PRL
------------------------------
------------------------------
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
------------------
Post by Paul Licameli
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the
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Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
------------------------------
------------------------------
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
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Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
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------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the
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------------------------------
------------------------------------------------
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Post by Steve the Fiddle
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Post by Steve the Fiddle
------------------------------
------------------------------------------------
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Steve the Fiddle
2017-04-03 18:14:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Licameli
importing as a Note track surely makes more sense. Making mix& render
convert MIDI to a wave track would make sense too if there is a good library
to add to our lib-src.
libfluidsynth http://fluidsynth.sourceforge.net/api/

Steve
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
I would guess that when Audacity has better support for MIDI that we
would want to be able to import note tracks by dropping MIDI files
into the application? If so, then we probably do need to block FFmpeg
from rendering MID files so that Audacity can handle them properly.
Steve
On 3 April 2017 at 16:52, Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
I used in MS-DOS something called MODEDIT. It supported the famous .mod
4-track format. THere were also other formats, like s3m (I used
InertiaPlayer for those). Currently, as Steve says, lots of tracker groups
going on!
On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 4:22 PM, Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
MIDI and MOD (modules) are very closely related.
Post by Steve the Fiddle
From very early days of computer music, computers have been used to
play sequences of audio events - the fundamental concept of a
"sequencer". The first "music computer" I recall seeing was a
Fairlight CMI in a small London studio in the early '80s. I remember
being utterly astonished by this machine, with its ability to perform
"automatic double tracking", digital delay, and a "huge" library of
hundreds of sounds. This was before the arrival of MIDI, but a
continuation of the development from step sequencers and early drum
machines. Later versions of the Fairlight CMI supported MIDI.
Roll on a few years to the (much more affordable) Atari ST and
"trackers" were all the rage and remained popular into the '90s (I was
using ModPlug Tracker in the late '90s on Windows 3.11). Standards for
MOD files were "flexible" in the sense that there were many
variations. "Impulse Tracker" (running under MS-DOS) had its own .IT
file extension. "Fast Tracker" introduced the XM and XI formats and
"Scream Tracker" brought the S3M format. The formats were similar
enough that more "modern" (late '90s) trackers like ModPlug could
support all of the variants.
As MIDI became more widespread there was less need for sequencers to
handle sampling / synthesis, and MIDI sequencers controlling separate
(hardware or software) sound modules, gradually replaced trackers.
Trackers still remain as a niche interest, with at least one tracker
still under development - OpenMPT, the direct descendant of ModPlug
https://source.openmpt.org/browse/openmpt/
(I feel all nostalgic now ;-)
Steve
Post by Steve the Fiddle
As I understand it, the point about MOD files (or tracker files as they
are
sometimes called) is that they actually have PCM samples in them.
The file describes how to repeat/rearrange the samples.
I guess FFmpeg is figuring out the arranging without having the audio
data to do it with, so is trying to do so with the MIDI information on
its
own.
Gale
Post by Paul Licameli
I know nothing about .mod files. No relation to .mid files? Or is
it
a
similar enough format?
What do we think is happening? Does ffmpeg misinterpret .mid files as
if
some other format?
Somehow the bad renderings I hear get the melody somewhat right, but the
timbres wrong, and there are loud clicks in the result. It's weird.
PRL
On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 2:28 PM, Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
And the prize goes to Robert :-)
Yes it's a mod file.
I think the reason that FFmpeg gives some sound from MIDI files is an
accident. My guess is that libmodplug is trying to read them and is
using a generic "beep" tone in the absence of any audio data in the
file.
I've not found anything about MIDI support in FFmpeg, other than
everyone saying "FFmpeg does not support MIDI", but FFmpeg DOES
support MOD files via libmodplug.
So in response to Paul's question, I don't think we should drop mod
file support. I think we should make it work on all platforms and
document it.
Steve
2017-04-01 17:36 GMT+02:00, Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Try dragging this file into Audacity on Windows with FFmpeg.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p1d0ahqtt0qvg6n/GSLINGER.mid?dl=0
Sounds pretty good.
Is it some kind of mod file?
Robert
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Steve
On 1 April 2017 at 15:58, Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
Should this awful thing be available on all platforms or on none?
As
now,
neither is the case.
As I said, there is some code specific to Mac, probably put there
for
other
reasons, but incidentally blocking import of MIDI by FFmpeg.
PRL
On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
That's amazing, I never knew FFmpeg could do that.
OK, so it's awful, truly awful, but could be of interest for
people
wanting an easy way to make "chiptunes".
Steve
On 1 April 2017 at 12:30, Robert Hänggi
2017-04-01 13:01 GMT+02:00, Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
t
The rendering is so poor, perhaps we should disable this on
Windows as
on
Mac. Did you try it? Awful.
Someone on the Audacity4blind mailing list mentioned it some
weeks
ago.
I did the same investigation as you with the same result.
It's really not worth keeping it until it is an official
feature of
FFMpeg.
To me, it sounds like some sort of "audio thumbnail".
Robert
Post by Paul Licameli
On Friday, March 31, 2017, Pokechu22
Huh, that's really odd.
I don't know why ffmpeg supports midi suddenly. Their
site
makes
no
claims about midi support, and I can't find anything in
the
source
that implies it should...
(https://github.com/FFmpeg/FFmpeg/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=midi&type=
shows support for midi sample dumps (no clue what those
are,
but
the
extension is sds), but not midi itself). Yet it works
(both
in
audacity, and with the standalone ffmpeg).
It also works via Import->Audio with "all files" selected,
but
not
when "all supported files" or "ffmpeg-compatible files" is
selected.
I have no clue how... interesting find.
--Poke
On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 8:14 PM, Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
I just compiled Pokechu22's branch on Windows and
imported
a
MIDI
file
and
Post by Paul Licameli
basic playback worked.
But I also made a discovery. I can drag and drop a .MID
file
onto
the
Audacity window and it renders (but badly, with wrong
timbres!)
as
a
waveform. This happens even in master. Debugging
showed
me
the
FFmpeg
import plugin was doing it.
Did we know we had this feature? I didn't!
The same does not happen on macOS. Instead I get an
error
dialog
telling me
Post by Paul Licameli
to use Import MIDI... in the menus. The reason for the
difference
may
relate to the conditional compilation in class
DropTarget
in
Project.cpp.
PRL
------------------------------------------------------------
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Robert Hänggi
2017-04-03 18:46:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Licameli
importing as a Note track surely makes more sense. Making mix& render
convert MIDI to a wave track would make sense too if there is a good
library to add to our lib-src.
This will be needed anyway, I think.

I've shortly tested Midi output.
I assume that it uses (on Windows 7) the Microsoft GS wavetable synth?
If this is the Midi mapper default, of course.

Unfortunately, on Windows 7, this setting can't be changed with the
control panel.
Thus, we'll need an additional device setting before long.
I've also used a software synth with soundfonts.
Quite complicated to get it working...
However, my computer is not fast enough to play it smoothly to a soft
synth without drop-outs or hang-ups.

Robert
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
I would guess that when Audacity has better support for MIDI that we
would want to be able to import note tracks by dropping MIDI files
into the application? If so, then we probably do need to block FFmpeg
from rendering MID files so that Audacity can handle them properly.
Steve
On 3 April 2017 at 16:52, Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
I used in MS-DOS something called MODEDIT. It supported the famous .mod
4-track format. THere were also other formats, like s3m (I used
InertiaPlayer for those). Currently, as Steve says, lots of tracker
groups
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
going on!
On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 4:22 PM, Steve the Fiddle <
Post by Steve the Fiddle
MIDI and MOD (modules) are very closely related.
Post by Steve the Fiddle
From very early days of computer music, computers have been used to
play sequences of audio events - the fundamental concept of a
"sequencer". The first "music computer" I recall seeing was a
Fairlight CMI in a small London studio in the early '80s. I remember
being utterly astonished by this machine, with its ability to perform
"automatic double tracking", digital delay, and a "huge" library of
hundreds of sounds. This was before the arrival of MIDI, but a
continuation of the development from step sequencers and early drum
machines. Later versions of the Fairlight CMI supported MIDI.
Roll on a few years to the (much more affordable) Atari ST and
"trackers" were all the rage and remained popular into the '90s (I was
using ModPlug Tracker in the late '90s on Windows 3.11). Standards for
MOD files were "flexible" in the sense that there were many
variations. "Impulse Tracker" (running under MS-DOS) had its own .IT
file extension. "Fast Tracker" introduced the XM and XI formats and
"Scream Tracker" brought the S3M format. The formats were similar
enough that more "modern" (late '90s) trackers like ModPlug could
support all of the variants.
As MIDI became more widespread there was less need for sequencers to
handle sampling / synthesis, and MIDI sequencers controlling separate
(hardware or software) sound modules, gradually replaced trackers.
Trackers still remain as a niche interest, with at least one tracker
still under development - OpenMPT, the direct descendant of ModPlug
https://source.openmpt.org/browse/openmpt/
(I feel all nostalgic now ;-)
Steve
Post by Steve the Fiddle
As I understand it, the point about MOD files (or tracker files as
they
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
are
sometimes called) is that they actually have PCM samples in them.
The file describes how to repeat/rearrange the samples.
I guess FFmpeg is figuring out the arranging without having the audio
data to do it with, so is trying to do so with the MIDI information on
its
own.
Gale
Post by Paul Licameli
I know nothing about .mod files. No relation to .mid files? Or is
it
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
a
similar enough format?
What do we think is happening? Does ffmpeg misinterpret .mid files
as
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
if
some other format?
Somehow the bad renderings I hear get the melody somewhat right,
but
the
timbres wrong, and there are loud clicks in the result. It's weird.
PRL
On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 2:28 PM, Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
And the prize goes to Robert :-)
Yes it's a mod file.
I think the reason that FFmpeg gives some sound from MIDI files is
an
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
accident. My guess is that libmodplug is trying to read them and is
using a generic "beep" tone in the absence of any audio data in the
file.
I've not found anything about MIDI support in FFmpeg, other than
everyone saying "FFmpeg does not support MIDI", but FFmpeg DOES
support MOD files via libmodplug.
So in response to Paul's question, I don't think we should drop mod
file support. I think we should make it work on all platforms and
document it.
Steve
<javascript:;>>
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
2017-04-01 17:36 GMT+02:00, Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Try dragging this file into Audacity on Windows with FFmpeg.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p1d0ahqtt0qvg6n/GSLINGER.mid?dl=0
Sounds pretty good.
Is it some kind of mod file?
Robert
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Steve
On 1 April 2017 at 15:58, Paul Licameli
<javascript:;>>
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Should this awful thing be available on all platforms or on
none?
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
As
now,
neither is the case.
As I said, there is some code specific to Mac, probably put
there
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
for
other
reasons, but incidentally blocking import of MIDI by FFmpeg.
PRL
On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
That's amazing, I never knew FFmpeg could do that.
OK, so it's awful, truly awful, but could be of interest for
people
wanting an easy way to make "chiptunes".
Steve
On 1 April 2017 at 12:30, Robert Hänggi <
2017-04-01 13:01 GMT+02:00, Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
t
The rendering is so poor, perhaps we should disable this on
Windows as
on
Mac. Did you try it? Awful.
Someone on the Audacity4blind mailing list mentioned it some
weeks
ago.
I did the same investigation as you with the same result.
It's really not worth keeping it until it is an official
feature of
FFMpeg.
To me, it sounds like some sort of "audio thumbnail".
Robert
Post by Paul Licameli
On Friday, March 31, 2017, Pokechu22
Huh, that's really odd.
I don't know why ffmpeg supports midi suddenly. Their
site
makes
no
claims about midi support, and I can't find anything in
the
source
that implies it should...
(https://github.com/FFmpeg/FFmpeg/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&
q=midi&type=
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
shows support for midi sample dumps (no clue what those
are,
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
but
the
extension is sds), but not midi itself). Yet it works
(both
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
in
audacity, and with the standalone ffmpeg).
It also works via Import->Audio with "all files"
selected,
but
not
when "all supported files" or "ffmpeg-compatible files"
is
selected.
I have no clue how... interesting find.
--Poke
On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 8:14 PM, Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
I just compiled Pokechu22's branch on Windows and
imported
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
a
MIDI
file
and
Post by Paul Licameli
basic playback worked.
But I also made a discovery. I can drag and drop a
.MID
file
onto
the
Audacity window and it renders (but badly, with wrong
timbres!)
as
a
waveform. This happens even in master. Debugging
showed
me
the
FFmpeg
import plugin was doing it.
Did we know we had this feature? I didn't!
The same does not happen on macOS. Instead I get an
error
Post by Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
dialog
telling me
Post by Paul Licameli
to use Import MIDI... in the menus. The reason for the
difference
may
relate to the conditional compilation in class
DropTarget
in
Project.cpp.
PRL
------------------------------
------------------------------
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