Discussion:
[Audacity-devel] Vertical ruler scroll wheel, revisited
Paul Licameli
2016-10-26 18:03:19 UTC
Permalink
Reviewing some of the history of this release, I am now considering the
commit 256a8aaedd45733233bbd0f157affcf12bfeba31, which causes a regression
in capabilities from 2.1.2.

Whereas four things could be done with mouse wheel in the vertical ruler of
Waveform dB view in 2.1.2, now there are only three things. I think the
one that was lost was useful. I want to question this change now and find
consensus.

Used to be thus -- I suggest you generate a pluck and try all four
(remember shift-right click in the ruler resets the scale):

wheel without modifiers scrolls the view up and down;
ctrl+wheel changes magnification;
shift+wheel changes bottom of dB scale WITHOUT changing magification
(meaning the zero dB mark moves up and down)
shift+ctrl+wheel changes bottom of dB scale WITH a change of magnification,
such that the db mark at the visible top of the scale remains in view.

But now, these are respectively shift+wheel, ctrl+wheel, shift+cltr+wheel,
and unavailable.

Steve did this in the name of "consistency" but I don't know what that
means. If unmodified mouse wheel with pointer in the wave moves things up
and down on screen, then what obtained before was more consistent with
that. If I am wrong, still the unmodified scroll wheel action is still
available, and might be reassigned.

I don't recall who else favored this change. But I don't like it that one
of four options is lost.

James has suggested that the mouse wheel actions should be governed by
preferences, but that's for the future.

Author: Steve Daulton <***@users.noreply.github.com> 2016-08-09
12:01:05
Committer: Steve Daulton <***@users.noreply.github.com>
2016-08-09 12:01:05
Parent: 6089c94971e1ce0b7c94ab9f7762f6dc1383ef5f (Fix bug 1473)
Child: 8cb8e590468eedbceaee9f5ed8d09d5cae8e45a8 (Remove line breaks now
help window is smaller)
Branches: delete-array, envelope-fixes, malloc2, master, refcounts,
remotes/audacity/master, remotes/origin/WaveClips,
remotes/origin/delete-array, remotes/origin/deletes,
remotes/origin/import-deletes, remotes/origin/refcounts,
remotes/walisser/omp-artist, sampleCount, sampleCount2, shadows,
track-iters, track-iters2, warnings
Follows: Good-Mac-Build
Precedes: No-Scalar-Naked-New

Consistent vert/horizontal waveform zoom/scroll

Shift+Wheel -> scroll
Ctrl+Wheel -> zoom
Ctrl+Shift+Wheel -> Waveform dB end range adjust (when visible).
Cliff Scott
2016-10-26 18:46:56 UTC
Permalink
FYI, on MBP using El Capitan

Note: Wheel and 2 finger trackpad scroll operate the same.

2.1.2

Wheel- scrolls view up and down
Cmd/Ctrl+Wheel - changes magnification
Shift + Wheel - Nothing
Cmd+Shift+Wheel - Nothing

2.1.3 built Oct. 6th

Wheel - Nothing
Cmd/Ctrl+Wheel - Changes magnification
Shift+ Wheel - Changes bottom of dB scale without changing magnification
Shift+Cmd/Ctrl - Nothing

Cliff
Reviewing some of the history of this release, I am now considering the commit 256a8aaedd45733233bbd0f157affcf12bfeba31, which causes a regression in capabilities from 2.1.2.
Whereas four things could be done with mouse wheel in the vertical ruler of Waveform dB view in 2.1.2, now there are only three things. I think the one that was lost was useful. I want to question this change now and find consensus.
wheel without modifiers scrolls the view up and down;
ctrl+wheel changes magnification;
shift+wheel changes bottom of dB scale WITHOUT changing magification (meaning the zero dB mark moves up and down)
shift+ctrl+wheel changes bottom of dB scale WITH a change of magnification, such that the db mark at the visible top of the scale remains in view.
But now, these are respectively shift+wheel, ctrl+wheel, shift+cltr+wheel, and unavailable.
Steve did this in the name of "consistency" but I don't know what that means. If unmodified mouse wheel with pointer in the wave moves things up and down on screen, then what obtained before was more consistent with that. If I am wrong, still the unmodified scroll wheel action is still available, and might be reassigned.
I don't recall who else favored this change. But I don't like it that one of four options is lost.
James has suggested that the mouse wheel actions should be governed by preferences, but that's for the future.
Parent: 6089c94971e1ce0b7c94ab9f7762f6dc1383ef5f (Fix bug 1473)
Child: 8cb8e590468eedbceaee9f5ed8d09d5cae8e45a8 (Remove line breaks now help window is smaller)
Branches: delete-array, envelope-fixes, malloc2, master, refcounts, remotes/audacity/master, remotes/origin/WaveClips, remotes/origin/delete-array, remotes/origin/deletes, remotes/origin/import-deletes, remotes/origin/refcounts, remotes/walisser/omp-artist, sampleCount, sampleCount2, shadows, track-iters, track-iters2, warnings
Follows: Good-Mac-Build
Precedes: No-Scalar-Naked-New
Consistent vert/horizontal waveform zoom/scroll
Shift+Wheel -> scroll
Ctrl+Wheel -> zoom
Ctrl+Shift+Wheel -> Waveform dB end range adjust (when visible).
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Steve the Fiddle
2016-10-26 19:36:05 UTC
Permalink
"Consistent behaviour" is when similar things work in similar ways.
This is considered good practice as it makes the application easier
and more intuitive for users.

When a user has learned how to do one thing, such as zooming
horizontally on a track, or scrolling a track left/right, then through
consistent design, other similar behaviours become obvious because
they work in the same way.

In this case:

* To scroll a project horizontally = Shift + mouse wheel
* To scroll a multi-track project vertically = Shift + mouse wheel
* To scroll the track ruler = Shift + mouse wheel.

* To zoom in horizontally = Ctrl + mouse wheel
* To zoom in on the track ruler = Ctrl + mouse wheel

Note also that Shift + Mouse wheel is widely used in other
applications for scrolling, and Ctrl + Mouse wheel is widely used for
zooming.

"More" is not synonymous with "better". One of the most common design
mistakes is to try to cram too much into a design. Deciding whether to
add a feature to a design should be based on a clear, definable need
for the feature, not "just because you can".

Steve
Post by Cliff Scott
FYI, on MBP using El Capitan
Note: Wheel and 2 finger trackpad scroll operate the same.
2.1.2
Wheel- scrolls view up and down
Cmd/Ctrl+Wheel - changes magnification
Shift + Wheel - Nothing
Cmd+Shift+Wheel - Nothing
2.1.3 built Oct. 6th
Wheel - Nothing
Cmd/Ctrl+Wheel - Changes magnification
Shift+ Wheel - Changes bottom of dB scale without changing magnification
Shift+Cmd/Ctrl - Nothing
Cliff
Reviewing some of the history of this release, I am now considering the
commit 256a8aaedd45733233bbd0f157affcf12bfeba31, which causes a regression
in capabilities from 2.1.2.
Whereas four things could be done with mouse wheel in the vertical ruler of
Waveform dB view in 2.1.2, now there are only three things. I think the one
that was lost was useful. I want to question this change now and find
consensus.
Used to be thus -- I suggest you generate a pluck and try all four (remember
wheel without modifiers scrolls the view up and down;
ctrl+wheel changes magnification;
shift+wheel changes bottom of dB scale WITHOUT changing magification
(meaning the zero dB mark moves up and down)
shift+ctrl+wheel changes bottom of dB scale WITH a change of magnification,
such that the db mark at the visible top of the scale remains in view.
But now, these are respectively shift+wheel, ctrl+wheel, shift+cltr+wheel, and unavailable.
Steve did this in the name of "consistency" but I don't know what that
means. If unmodified mouse wheel with pointer in the wave moves things up
and down on screen, then what obtained before was more consistent with that.
If I am wrong, still the unmodified scroll wheel action is still available,
and might be reassigned.
I don't recall who else favored this change. But I don't like it that one
of four options is lost.
James has suggested that the mouse wheel actions should be governed by
preferences, but that's for the future.
12:01:05
2016-08-09 12:01:05
Parent: 6089c94971e1ce0b7c94ab9f7762f6dc1383ef5f (Fix bug 1473)
Child: 8cb8e590468eedbceaee9f5ed8d09d5cae8e45a8 (Remove line breaks now
help window is smaller)
Branches: delete-array, envelope-fixes, malloc2, master, refcounts,
remotes/audacity/master, remotes/origin/WaveClips,
remotes/origin/delete-array, remotes/origin/deletes,
remotes/origin/import-deletes, remotes/origin/refcounts,
remotes/walisser/omp-artist, sampleCount, sampleCount2, shadows,
track-iters, track-iters2, warnings
Follows: Good-Mac-Build
Precedes: No-Scalar-Naked-New
Consistent vert/horizontal waveform zoom/scroll
Shift+Wheel -> scroll
Ctrl+Wheel -> zoom
Ctrl+Shift+Wheel -> Waveform dB end range adjust (when visible).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Paul Licameli
2016-10-26 22:36:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve the Fiddle
"Consistent behaviour" is when similar things work in similar ways.
This is considered good practice as it makes the application easier
and more intuitive for users.
When a user has learned how to do one thing, such as zooming
horizontally on a track, or scrolling a track left/right, then through
consistent design, other similar behaviours become obvious because
they work in the same way.
* To scroll a project horizontally = Shift + mouse wheel
Yes, when the mouse is in the wave.
Post by Steve the Fiddle
* To scroll a multi-track project vertically = Shift + mouse wheel
I am not sure what the second refers to. Scrolling a multi track project
vertically is by the unmodified scroll wheel, is it not?
Post by Steve the Fiddle
* To scroll the track ruler = Shift + mouse wheel.
You can argue one way that this new behavior is consistent, because shift +
mouse wheel causes ruler marks to slide without changing magnification. In
one case the time ruler, in the other, the level or dB or frequency ruler.

You can argue another way that it is not consistent. With the pointer in
the track, shift + mouse is horizontal scrolling, unmodified is vertical.
But with the pointer in the vertical ruler, shift + mouse is vertical
scrolling.

So which is the correct point of view?

A differing opinion that I incline to though is that consistency is less
important, than that the more convenient unmodified mouse wheel should be
for a more common operation. So I think it is an old established design
mistake, that shift + wheel, rather than unmodified, was for horizontal
scrolling of the project.

For the vertical ruler, I think the vertical scrolling is the more
frequently useful thing, and it applies in other views than waveform dB.
Changing the dB scale is the less usual thing to do.
Post by Steve the Fiddle
* To zoom in horizontally = Ctrl + mouse wheel
* To zoom in on the track ruler = Ctrl + mouse wheel
No argument that this is consistent, and this did not change, so there is
no debate on this point.
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Note also that Shift + Mouse wheel is widely used in other
applications for scrolling, and Ctrl + Mouse wheel is widely used for
zooming.
Perhaps so. But what is conventional when there are two directions of
scrolling? If you are arguing by analogy with web browsers or editors
showing a long text, then the orientation is less important than the
logical forward and backward movement through content. We have Page Up and
Page Down keys that move the view horizontally, but that means, forward and
backward.
Post by Steve the Fiddle
"More" is not synonymous with "better". One of the most common design
mistakes is to try to cram too much into a design. Deciding whether to
add a feature to a design should be based on a clear, definable need
for the feature, not "just because you can".
In my opinion the removed feature was a useful one. I wanted to be able to
change the bottom of the scale while leaving the visible top of the scale
fixed, so that if I see peaks and troughs of the wave, they do not
disappear. Now that is lost.

Did you remove a feature from 2.1.2 by your lone decision then? I do not
recollect what discussion accompanied this change. Were there other
opinions? I will abide by consensus.

PRL
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Steve
Post by Cliff Scott
FYI, on MBP using El Capitan
Note: Wheel and 2 finger trackpad scroll operate the same.
2.1.2
Wheel- scrolls view up and down
Cmd/Ctrl+Wheel - changes magnification
Shift + Wheel - Nothing
Cmd+Shift+Wheel - Nothing
2.1.3 built Oct. 6th
Wheel - Nothing
Cmd/Ctrl+Wheel - Changes magnification
Shift+ Wheel - Changes bottom of dB scale without changing magnification
Shift+Cmd/Ctrl - Nothing
Cliff
Reviewing some of the history of this release, I am now considering the
commit 256a8aaedd45733233bbd0f157affcf12bfeba31, which causes a
regression
Post by Cliff Scott
in capabilities from 2.1.2.
Whereas four things could be done with mouse wheel in the vertical ruler
of
Post by Cliff Scott
Waveform dB view in 2.1.2, now there are only three things. I think the
one
Post by Cliff Scott
that was lost was useful. I want to question this change now and find
consensus.
Used to be thus -- I suggest you generate a pluck and try all four
(remember
Post by Cliff Scott
wheel without modifiers scrolls the view up and down;
ctrl+wheel changes magnification;
shift+wheel changes bottom of dB scale WITHOUT changing magification
(meaning the zero dB mark moves up and down)
shift+ctrl+wheel changes bottom of dB scale WITH a change of
magnification,
Post by Cliff Scott
such that the db mark at the visible top of the scale remains in view.
But now, these are respectively shift+wheel, ctrl+wheel,
shift+cltr+wheel,
Post by Cliff Scott
and unavailable.
Steve did this in the name of "consistency" but I don't know what that
means. If unmodified mouse wheel with pointer in the wave moves things
up
Post by Cliff Scott
and down on screen, then what obtained before was more consistent with
that.
Post by Cliff Scott
If I am wrong, still the unmodified scroll wheel action is still
available,
Post by Cliff Scott
and might be reassigned.
I don't recall who else favored this change. But I don't like it that
one
Post by Cliff Scott
of four options is lost.
James has suggested that the mouse wheel actions should be governed by
preferences, but that's for the future.
2016-08-09
Post by Cliff Scott
12:01:05
2016-08-09 12:01:05
Parent: 6089c94971e1ce0b7c94ab9f7762f6dc1383ef5f (Fix bug 1473)
Child: 8cb8e590468eedbceaee9f5ed8d09d5cae8e45a8 (Remove line breaks now
help window is smaller)
Branches: delete-array, envelope-fixes, malloc2, master, refcounts,
remotes/audacity/master, remotes/origin/WaveClips,
remotes/origin/delete-array, remotes/origin/deletes,
remotes/origin/import-deletes, remotes/origin/refcounts,
remotes/walisser/omp-artist, sampleCount, sampleCount2, shadows,
track-iters, track-iters2, warnings
Follows: Good-Mac-Build
Precedes: No-Scalar-Naked-New
Consistent vert/horizontal waveform zoom/scroll
Shift+Wheel -> scroll
Ctrl+Wheel -> zoom
Ctrl+Shift+Wheel -> Waveform dB end range adjust (when visible).
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Post by Cliff Scott
The Command Line: Reinvented for Modern Developers
Did the resurgence of CLI tooling catch you by surprise?
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------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Post by Cliff Scott
The Command Line: Reinvented for Modern Developers
Did the resurgence of CLI tooling catch you by surprise?
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------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
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Gale Andrews
2016-10-26 23:43:40 UTC
Permalink
I think the "consensus" was "not sure if I like it but not
strongly opposed".

I questioned the loss of changing the bottom of the dB
scale with change of magnification, and Steve said you
could zoom as an extra step. This doesn't seem
convenient to me as someone who might occasionally
want to do that.

On the whole I've come to like the change except for
the "loss" above. Could we add another mouse
binding including ALT (Option on Mac) to cover the
"loss"?


Gale
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
"Consistent behaviour" is when similar things work in similar ways.
This is considered good practice as it makes the application easier
and more intuitive for users.
When a user has learned how to do one thing, such as zooming
horizontally on a track, or scrolling a track left/right, then through
consistent design, other similar behaviours become obvious because
they work in the same way.
* To scroll a project horizontally = Shift + mouse wheel
Yes, when the mouse is in the wave.
Post by Steve the Fiddle
* To scroll a multi-track project vertically = Shift + mouse wheel
I am not sure what the second refers to. Scrolling a multi track project
vertically is by the unmodified scroll wheel, is it not?
Post by Steve the Fiddle
* To scroll the track ruler = Shift + mouse wheel.
You can argue one way that this new behavior is consistent, because shift +
mouse wheel causes ruler marks to slide without changing magnification. In
one case the time ruler, in the other, the level or dB or frequency ruler.
You can argue another way that it is not consistent. With the pointer in
the track, shift + mouse is horizontal scrolling, unmodified is vertical.
But with the pointer in the vertical ruler, shift + mouse is vertical
scrolling.
So which is the correct point of view?
A differing opinion that I incline to though is that consistency is less
important, than that the more convenient unmodified mouse wheel should be
for a more common operation. So I think it is an old established design
mistake, that shift + wheel, rather than unmodified, was for horizontal
scrolling of the project.
For the vertical ruler, I think the vertical scrolling is the more
frequently useful thing, and it applies in other views than waveform dB.
Changing the dB scale is the less usual thing to do.
Post by Steve the Fiddle
* To zoom in horizontally = Ctrl + mouse wheel
* To zoom in on the track ruler = Ctrl + mouse wheel
No argument that this is consistent, and this did not change, so there is no
debate on this point.
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Note also that Shift + Mouse wheel is widely used in other
applications for scrolling, and Ctrl + Mouse wheel is widely used for
zooming.
Perhaps so. But what is conventional when there are two directions of
scrolling? If you are arguing by analogy with web browsers or editors
showing a long text, then the orientation is less important than the logical
forward and backward movement through content. We have Page Up and Page
Down keys that move the view horizontally, but that means, forward and
backward.
Post by Steve the Fiddle
"More" is not synonymous with "better". One of the most common design
mistakes is to try to cram too much into a design. Deciding whether to
add a feature to a design should be based on a clear, definable need
for the feature, not "just because you can".
In my opinion the removed feature was a useful one. I wanted to be able to
change the bottom of the scale while leaving the visible top of the scale
fixed, so that if I see peaks and troughs of the wave, they do not
disappear. Now that is lost.
Did you remove a feature from 2.1.2 by your lone decision then? I do not
recollect what discussion accompanied this change. Were there other
opinions? I will abide by consensus.
PRL
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Steve
Post by Cliff Scott
FYI, on MBP using El Capitan
Note: Wheel and 2 finger trackpad scroll operate the same.
2.1.2
Wheel- scrolls view up and down
Cmd/Ctrl+Wheel - changes magnification
Shift + Wheel - Nothing
Cmd+Shift+Wheel - Nothing
2.1.3 built Oct. 6th
Wheel - Nothing
Cmd/Ctrl+Wheel - Changes magnification
Shift+ Wheel - Changes bottom of dB scale without changing magnification
Shift+Cmd/Ctrl - Nothing
Cliff
Reviewing some of the history of this release, I am now considering the
commit 256a8aaedd45733233bbd0f157affcf12bfeba31, which causes a regression
in capabilities from 2.1.2.
Whereas four things could be done with mouse wheel in the vertical ruler of
Waveform dB view in 2.1.2, now there are only three things. I think the one
that was lost was useful. I want to question this change now and find
consensus.
Used to be thus -- I suggest you generate a pluck and try all four (remember
wheel without modifiers scrolls the view up and down;
ctrl+wheel changes magnification;
shift+wheel changes bottom of dB scale WITHOUT changing magification
(meaning the zero dB mark moves up and down)
shift+ctrl+wheel changes bottom of dB scale WITH a change of magnification,
such that the db mark at the visible top of the scale remains in view.
But now, these are respectively shift+wheel, ctrl+wheel,
shift+cltr+wheel,
and unavailable.
Steve did this in the name of "consistency" but I don't know what that
means. If unmodified mouse wheel with pointer in the wave moves things up
and down on screen, then what obtained before was more consistent with that.
If I am wrong, still the unmodified scroll wheel action is still available,
and might be reassigned.
I don't recall who else favored this change. But I don't like it that one
of four options is lost.
James has suggested that the mouse wheel actions should be governed by
preferences, but that's for the future.
2016-08-09
12:01:05
2016-08-09 12:01:05
Parent: 6089c94971e1ce0b7c94ab9f7762f6dc1383ef5f (Fix bug 1473)
Child: 8cb8e590468eedbceaee9f5ed8d09d5cae8e45a8 (Remove line breaks now
help window is smaller)
Branches: delete-array, envelope-fixes, malloc2, master, refcounts,
remotes/audacity/master, remotes/origin/WaveClips,
remotes/origin/delete-array, remotes/origin/deletes,
remotes/origin/import-deletes, remotes/origin/refcounts,
remotes/walisser/omp-artist, sampleCount, sampleCount2, shadows,
track-iters, track-iters2, warnings
Follows: Good-Mac-Build
Precedes: No-Scalar-Naked-New
Consistent vert/horizontal waveform zoom/scroll
Shift+Wheel -> scroll
Ctrl+Wheel -> zoom
Ctrl+Shift+Wheel -> Waveform dB end range adjust (when visible).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Paul Licameli
2016-10-26 22:44:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cliff Scott
FYI, on MBP using El Capitan
Note: Wheel and 2 finger trackpad scroll operate the same.
2.1.2
Wheel- scrolls view up and down
Cmd/Ctrl+Wheel - changes magnification
Shift + Wheel - Nothing
Cmd+Shift+Wheel - Nothing
Cliff, to see the effects of shift+wheel and shift+ctrl+wheel, you must
choose waveform dB view, and the midline of the wave must be within view.
Post by Cliff Scott
2.1.3 built Oct. 6th
Wheel - Nothing
Cmd/Ctrl+Wheel - Changes magnification
Shift+ Wheel - Changes bottom of dB scale without changing magnification
Shift+Cmd/Ctrl - Nothing
The change was that shift+wheel now does what unmodified wheel did, and
shift+cmd+wheel does what shift+wheel did. And what shift+cmd+wheel did is
not longer available.

PRL
Post by Cliff Scott
Cliff
Reviewing some of the history of this release, I am now considering the
commit 256a8aaedd45733233bbd0f157affcf12bfeba31, which causes a
regression in capabilities from 2.1.2.
Whereas four things could be done with mouse wheel in the vertical ruler
of Waveform dB view in 2.1.2, now there are only three things. I think the
one that was lost was useful. I want to question this change now and find
consensus.
Used to be thus -- I suggest you generate a pluck and try all four
wheel without modifiers scrolls the view up and down;
ctrl+wheel changes magnification;
shift+wheel changes bottom of dB scale WITHOUT changing magification
(meaning the zero dB mark moves up and down)
shift+ctrl+wheel changes bottom of dB scale WITH a change of
magnification, such that the db mark at the visible top of the scale
remains in view.
But now, these are respectively shift+wheel, ctrl+wheel, shift+cltr+wheel, and unavailable.
Steve did this in the name of "consistency" but I don't know what that
means. If unmodified mouse wheel with pointer in the wave moves things up
and down on screen, then what obtained before was more consistent with
that. If I am wrong, still the unmodified scroll wheel action is still
available, and might be reassigned.
I don't recall who else favored this change. But I don't like it that one
of four options is lost.
James has suggested that the mouse wheel actions should be governed by
preferences, but that's for the future.
2016-08-09 12:01:05
2016-08-09 12:01:05
Parent: 6089c94971e1ce0b7c94ab9f7762f6dc1383ef5f (Fix bug 1473)
Child: 8cb8e590468eedbceaee9f5ed8d09d5cae8e45a8 (Remove line breaks now
help window is smaller)
Branches: delete-array, envelope-fixes, malloc2, master, refcounts,
remotes/audacity/master, remotes/origin/WaveClips,
remotes/origin/delete-array, remotes/origin/deletes,
remotes/origin/import-deletes, remotes/origin/refcounts,
remotes/walisser/omp-artist, sampleCount, sampleCount2, shadows,
track-iters, track-iters2, warnings
Follows: Good-Mac-Build
Precedes: No-Scalar-Naked-New
Consistent vert/horizontal waveform zoom/scroll
Shift+Wheel -> scroll
Ctrl+Wheel -> zoom
Ctrl+Shift+Wheel -> Waveform dB end range adjust (when visible).
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
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Steve the Fiddle
2016-10-26 23:46:38 UTC
Permalink
I don't really see why we are discussing this again considering that
it was discussed earlier in this release cycle, agreed to, changed,
tested and documented.

If I recall correctly, the main complaint before the current version,
was that it was too easy to accidentally scroll the track contents
(the waveform) when intending to scroll tracks (in multi-track
projects).

Steve
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Cliff Scott
FYI, on MBP using El Capitan
Note: Wheel and 2 finger trackpad scroll operate the same.
2.1.2
Wheel- scrolls view up and down
Cmd/Ctrl+Wheel - changes magnification
Shift + Wheel - Nothing
Cmd+Shift+Wheel - Nothing
Cliff, to see the effects of shift+wheel and shift+ctrl+wheel, you must
choose waveform dB view, and the midline of the wave must be within view.
Post by Cliff Scott
2.1.3 built Oct. 6th
Wheel - Nothing
Cmd/Ctrl+Wheel - Changes magnification
Shift+ Wheel - Changes bottom of dB scale without changing magnification
Shift+Cmd/Ctrl - Nothing
The change was that shift+wheel now does what unmodified wheel did, and
shift+cmd+wheel does what shift+wheel did. And what shift+cmd+wheel did is
not longer available.
PRL
Post by Cliff Scott
Cliff
Reviewing some of the history of this release, I am now considering the
commit 256a8aaedd45733233bbd0f157affcf12bfeba31, which causes a regression
in capabilities from 2.1.2.
Whereas four things could be done with mouse wheel in the vertical ruler
of Waveform dB view in 2.1.2, now there are only three things. I think the
one that was lost was useful. I want to question this change now and find
consensus.
Used to be thus -- I suggest you generate a pluck and try all four
wheel without modifiers scrolls the view up and down;
ctrl+wheel changes magnification;
shift+wheel changes bottom of dB scale WITHOUT changing magification
(meaning the zero dB mark moves up and down)
shift+ctrl+wheel changes bottom of dB scale WITH a change of
magnification, such that the db mark at the visible top of the scale remains
in view.
But now, these are respectively shift+wheel, ctrl+wheel, shift+cltr+wheel,
and unavailable.
Steve did this in the name of "consistency" but I don't know what that
means. If unmodified mouse wheel with pointer in the wave moves things up
and down on screen, then what obtained before was more consistent with that.
If I am wrong, still the unmodified scroll wheel action is still available,
and might be reassigned.
I don't recall who else favored this change. But I don't like it that one
of four options is lost.
James has suggested that the mouse wheel actions should be governed by
preferences, but that's for the future.
2016-08-09 12:01:05
2016-08-09 12:01:05
Parent: 6089c94971e1ce0b7c94ab9f7762f6dc1383ef5f (Fix bug 1473)
Child: 8cb8e590468eedbceaee9f5ed8d09d5cae8e45a8 (Remove line breaks now
help window is smaller)
Branches: delete-array, envelope-fixes, malloc2, master, refcounts,
remotes/audacity/master, remotes/origin/WaveClips,
remotes/origin/delete-array, remotes/origin/deletes,
remotes/origin/import-deletes, remotes/origin/refcounts,
remotes/walisser/omp-artist, sampleCount, sampleCount2, shadows,
track-iters, track-iters2, warnings
Follows: Good-Mac-Build
Precedes: No-Scalar-Naked-New
Consistent vert/horizontal waveform zoom/scroll
Shift+Wheel -> scroll
Ctrl+Wheel -> zoom
Ctrl+Shift+Wheel -> Waveform dB end range adjust (when visible).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Did the resurgence of CLI tooling catch you by surprise?
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Gale Andrews
2016-10-27 02:02:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve the Fiddle
I don't really see why we are discussing this again considering that
it was discussed earlier in this release cycle, agreed to, changed,
tested and documented.
If I recall correctly, the main complaint before the current version,
was that it was too easy to accidentally scroll the track contents
(the waveform) when intending to scroll tracks (in multi-track
projects).
There was that too, which is why "on the whole" I've come to
like the change. But we do have a regression (feature loss)
for varying dB scale with magnification, whatever value you
put on it.

Zooming the vertical scale when you wanted to zoom the
waveform (and vice-versa) is still a problem. I get caught
a lot by zooming in then out on the vertical scale. When
you zoom out, unless the pointer is close to the Track
Control Panel, the width of the vertical scale reduces,
the mouse then becomes over the waveform, and the
waveform just becomes a sliver next to time zero.

Perhaps we should keep a constant width for the vertical
scale and change the font size of the numbers when
needed?


Gale
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Cliff Scott
FYI, on MBP using El Capitan
Note: Wheel and 2 finger trackpad scroll operate the same.
2.1.2
Wheel- scrolls view up and down
Cmd/Ctrl+Wheel - changes magnification
Shift + Wheel - Nothing
Cmd+Shift+Wheel - Nothing
Cliff, to see the effects of shift+wheel and shift+ctrl+wheel, you must
choose waveform dB view, and the midline of the wave must be within view.
Post by Cliff Scott
2.1.3 built Oct. 6th
Wheel - Nothing
Cmd/Ctrl+Wheel - Changes magnification
Shift+ Wheel - Changes bottom of dB scale without changing magnification
Shift+Cmd/Ctrl - Nothing
The change was that shift+wheel now does what unmodified wheel did, and
shift+cmd+wheel does what shift+wheel did. And what shift+cmd+wheel did is
not longer available.
PRL
Post by Cliff Scott
Cliff
Reviewing some of the history of this release, I am now considering the
commit 256a8aaedd45733233bbd0f157affcf12bfeba31, which causes a regression
in capabilities from 2.1.2.
Whereas four things could be done with mouse wheel in the vertical ruler
of Waveform dB view in 2.1.2, now there are only three things. I think the
one that was lost was useful. I want to question this change now and find
consensus.
Used to be thus -- I suggest you generate a pluck and try all four
wheel without modifiers scrolls the view up and down;
ctrl+wheel changes magnification;
shift+wheel changes bottom of dB scale WITHOUT changing magification
(meaning the zero dB mark moves up and down)
shift+ctrl+wheel changes bottom of dB scale WITH a change of
magnification, such that the db mark at the visible top of the scale remains
in view.
But now, these are respectively shift+wheel, ctrl+wheel, shift+cltr+wheel,
and unavailable.
Steve did this in the name of "consistency" but I don't know what that
means. If unmodified mouse wheel with pointer in the wave moves things up
and down on screen, then what obtained before was more consistent with that.
If I am wrong, still the unmodified scroll wheel action is still available,
and might be reassigned.
I don't recall who else favored this change. But I don't like it that one
of four options is lost.
James has suggested that the mouse wheel actions should be governed by
preferences, but that's for the future.
2016-08-09 12:01:05
2016-08-09 12:01:05
Parent: 6089c94971e1ce0b7c94ab9f7762f6dc1383ef5f (Fix bug 1473)
Child: 8cb8e590468eedbceaee9f5ed8d09d5cae8e45a8 (Remove line breaks now
help window is smaller)
Branches: delete-array, envelope-fixes, malloc2, master, refcounts,
remotes/audacity/master, remotes/origin/WaveClips,
remotes/origin/delete-array, remotes/origin/deletes,
remotes/origin/import-deletes, remotes/origin/refcounts,
remotes/walisser/omp-artist, sampleCount, sampleCount2, shadows,
track-iters, track-iters2, warnings
Follows: Good-Mac-Build
Precedes: No-Scalar-Naked-New
Consistent vert/horizontal waveform zoom/scroll
Shift+Wheel -> scroll
Ctrl+Wheel -> zoom
Ctrl+Shift+Wheel -> Waveform dB end range adjust (when visible).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Command Line: Reinvented for Modern Developers
Did the resurgence of CLI tooling catch you by surprise?
Reconnect with the command line and become more productive.
Learn the new .NET and ASP.NET CLI. Get your free copy!
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Paul Licameli
2016-10-27 03:07:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Steve the Fiddle
I don't really see why we are discussing this again considering that
it was discussed earlier in this release cycle, agreed to, changed,
tested and documented.
If I recall correctly, the main complaint before the current version,
was that it was too easy to accidentally scroll the track contents
(the waveform) when intending to scroll tracks (in multi-track
projects).
There was that too, which is why "on the whole" I've come to
like the change. But we do have a regression (feature loss)
for varying dB scale with magnification, whatever value you
put on it.
I did not get involved enough then. I regret it now.

I am not sold on the "consistency" argument for the change of modifiers.
But what concerns me more is loss of one of the four actions.

If only one of the two scroll actions to change the dB limit must be kept,
did we choose the right one?

Perhaps the unusual shift+ctrl+mousewheel could do both of these things,
with a further distinction based on mouse position. If the pointer is near
enough to the center line, do as shift+mousewheel in 2.1.2. If nearer the
extremes, then do as shift+ctrl+mousewheel.
Post by Gale Andrews
Zooming the vertical scale when you wanted to zoom the
waveform (and vice-versa) is still a problem. I get caught
a lot by zooming in then out on the vertical scale. When
you zoom out, unless the pointer is close to the Track
Control Panel, the width of the vertical scale reduces,
the mouse then becomes over the waveform, and the
waveform just becomes a sliver next to time zero.
Perhaps we should keep a constant width for the vertical
scale and change the font size of the numbers when
needed?
Or again, maybe be more discrimination about the hot zone. Maybe require
the mouse to be in the left half or three-fourths of the ruler. That might
be a big enough target, while avoiding the accidental scrolling of the wave
when the ruler changes width.

PRL
Post by Gale Andrews
Gale
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Cliff Scott
FYI, on MBP using El Capitan
Note: Wheel and 2 finger trackpad scroll operate the same.
2.1.2
Wheel- scrolls view up and down
Cmd/Ctrl+Wheel - changes magnification
Shift + Wheel - Nothing
Cmd+Shift+Wheel - Nothing
Cliff, to see the effects of shift+wheel and shift+ctrl+wheel, you must
choose waveform dB view, and the midline of the wave must be within
view.
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Cliff Scott
2.1.3 built Oct. 6th
Wheel - Nothing
Cmd/Ctrl+Wheel - Changes magnification
Shift+ Wheel - Changes bottom of dB scale without changing
magnification
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Cliff Scott
Shift+Cmd/Ctrl - Nothing
The change was that shift+wheel now does what unmodified wheel did, and
shift+cmd+wheel does what shift+wheel did. And what shift+cmd+wheel did
is
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
not longer available.
PRL
Post by Cliff Scott
Cliff
Reviewing some of the history of this release, I am now considering the
commit 256a8aaedd45733233bbd0f157affcf12bfeba31, which causes a
regression
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Cliff Scott
in capabilities from 2.1.2.
Whereas four things could be done with mouse wheel in the vertical
ruler
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Cliff Scott
of Waveform dB view in 2.1.2, now there are only three things. I
think the
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Cliff Scott
one that was lost was useful. I want to question this change now and
find
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Cliff Scott
consensus.
Used to be thus -- I suggest you generate a pluck and try all four
wheel without modifiers scrolls the view up and down;
ctrl+wheel changes magnification;
shift+wheel changes bottom of dB scale WITHOUT changing magification
(meaning the zero dB mark moves up and down)
shift+ctrl+wheel changes bottom of dB scale WITH a change of
magnification, such that the db mark at the visible top of the scale
remains
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Cliff Scott
in view.
But now, these are respectively shift+wheel, ctrl+wheel,
shift+cltr+wheel,
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Cliff Scott
and unavailable.
Steve did this in the name of "consistency" but I don't know what that
means. If unmodified mouse wheel with pointer in the wave moves
things up
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Cliff Scott
and down on screen, then what obtained before was more consistent with
that.
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Cliff Scott
If I am wrong, still the unmodified scroll wheel action is still
available,
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Cliff Scott
and might be reassigned.
I don't recall who else favored this change. But I don't like it that
one
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Cliff Scott
of four options is lost.
James has suggested that the mouse wheel actions should be governed by
preferences, but that's for the future.
2016-08-09 12:01:05
2016-08-09 12:01:05
Parent: 6089c94971e1ce0b7c94ab9f7762f6dc1383ef5f (Fix bug 1473)
Child: 8cb8e590468eedbceaee9f5ed8d09d5cae8e45a8 (Remove line breaks
now
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Cliff Scott
help window is smaller)
Branches: delete-array, envelope-fixes, malloc2, master, refcounts,
remotes/audacity/master, remotes/origin/WaveClips,
remotes/origin/delete-array, remotes/origin/deletes,
remotes/origin/import-deletes, remotes/origin/refcounts,
remotes/walisser/omp-artist, sampleCount, sampleCount2, shadows,
track-iters, track-iters2, warnings
Follows: Good-Mac-Build
Precedes: No-Scalar-Naked-New
Consistent vert/horizontal waveform zoom/scroll
Shift+Wheel -> scroll
Ctrl+Wheel -> zoom
Ctrl+Shift+Wheel -> Waveform dB end range adjust (when visible).
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Cliff Scott
The Command Line: Reinvented for Modern Developers
Did the resurgence of CLI tooling catch you by surprise?
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Learn the new .NET and ASP.NET CLI. Get your free copy!
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Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Cliff Scott
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Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
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Post by Steve the Fiddle
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Gale Andrews
2016-10-28 16:26:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Steve the Fiddle
I don't really see why we are discussing this again considering that
it was discussed earlier in this release cycle, agreed to, changed,
tested and documented.
If I recall correctly, the main complaint before the current version,
was that it was too easy to accidentally scroll the track contents
(the waveform) when intending to scroll tracks (in multi-track
projects).
There was that too, which is why "on the whole" I've come to
like the change. But we do have a regression (feature loss)
for varying dB scale with magnification, whatever value you
put on it.
I did not get involved enough then. I regret it now.
I am not sold on the "consistency" argument for the change of modifiers.
But what concerns me more is loss of one of the four actions.
If only one of the two scroll actions to change the dB limit must be kept,
did we choose the right one?
Given I don't use the vertical scale much in dB, I don't know,
but I preferred fixing on the 0 dB to not.
Post by Paul Licameli
Perhaps the unusual shift+ctrl+mousewheel could do both of these things,
with a further distinction based on mouse position. If the pointer is near
enough to the center line, do as shift+mousewheel in 2.1.2. If nearer the
extremes, then do as shift+ctrl+mousewheel.
I would prefer to add another shortcut rather than restrict on
mouse position. The new shortcut is only for vertical scale
in dB after all.

As always, if users complain in sufficient numbers then the
"feature loss" would go on Bugzilla as an Enh.


Gale
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Gale Andrews
Zooming the vertical scale when you wanted to zoom the
waveform (and vice-versa) is still a problem. I get caught
a lot by zooming in then out on the vertical scale. When
you zoom out, unless the pointer is close to the Track
Control Panel, the width of the vertical scale reduces,
the mouse then becomes over the waveform, and the
waveform just becomes a sliver next to time zero.
Perhaps we should keep a constant width for the vertical
scale and change the font size of the numbers when
needed?
Or again, maybe be more discrimination about the hot zone. Maybe require
the mouse to be in the left half or three-fourths of the ruler. That might
be a big enough target, while avoiding the accidental scrolling of the wave
when the ruler changes width.
PRL
Post by Gale Andrews
Gale
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Cliff Scott
FYI, on MBP using El Capitan
Note: Wheel and 2 finger trackpad scroll operate the same.
2.1.2
Wheel- scrolls view up and down
Cmd/Ctrl+Wheel - changes magnification
Shift + Wheel - Nothing
Cmd+Shift+Wheel - Nothing
Cliff, to see the effects of shift+wheel and shift+ctrl+wheel, you must
choose waveform dB view, and the midline of the wave must be within view.
Post by Cliff Scott
2.1.3 built Oct. 6th
Wheel - Nothing
Cmd/Ctrl+Wheel - Changes magnification
Shift+ Wheel - Changes bottom of dB scale without changing magnification
Shift+Cmd/Ctrl - Nothing
The change was that shift+wheel now does what unmodified wheel did, and
shift+cmd+wheel does what shift+wheel did. And what shift+cmd+wheel did is
not longer available.
PRL
Post by Cliff Scott
Cliff
Reviewing some of the history of this release, I am now considering the
commit 256a8aaedd45733233bbd0f157affcf12bfeba31, which causes a regression
in capabilities from 2.1.2.
Whereas four things could be done with mouse wheel in the vertical ruler
of Waveform dB view in 2.1.2, now there are only three things. I think the
one that was lost was useful. I want to question this change now and find
consensus.
Used to be thus -- I suggest you generate a pluck and try all four
wheel without modifiers scrolls the view up and down;
ctrl+wheel changes magnification;
shift+wheel changes bottom of dB scale WITHOUT changing magification
(meaning the zero dB mark moves up and down)
shift+ctrl+wheel changes bottom of dB scale WITH a change of
magnification, such that the db mark at the visible top of the scale remains
in view.
But now, these are respectively shift+wheel, ctrl+wheel,
shift+cltr+wheel,
and unavailable.
Steve did this in the name of "consistency" but I don't know what that
means. If unmodified mouse wheel with pointer in the wave moves things up
and down on screen, then what obtained before was more consistent with that.
If I am wrong, still the unmodified scroll wheel action is still available,
and might be reassigned.
I don't recall who else favored this change. But I don't like it that one
of four options is lost.
James has suggested that the mouse wheel actions should be governed by
preferences, but that's for the future.
2016-08-09 12:01:05
2016-08-09 12:01:05
Parent: 6089c94971e1ce0b7c94ab9f7762f6dc1383ef5f (Fix bug 1473)
Child: 8cb8e590468eedbceaee9f5ed8d09d5cae8e45a8 (Remove line breaks now
help window is smaller)
Branches: delete-array, envelope-fixes, malloc2, master, refcounts,
remotes/audacity/master, remotes/origin/WaveClips,
remotes/origin/delete-array, remotes/origin/deletes,
remotes/origin/import-deletes, remotes/origin/refcounts,
remotes/walisser/omp-artist, sampleCount, sampleCount2, shadows,
track-iters, track-iters2, warnings
Follows: Good-Mac-Build
Precedes: No-Scalar-Naked-New
Consistent vert/horizontal waveform zoom/scroll
Shift+Wheel -> scroll
Ctrl+Wheel -> zoom
Ctrl+Shift+Wheel -> Waveform dB end range adjust (when visible).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Paul Licameli
2016-10-28 16:39:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Steve the Fiddle
I don't really see why we are discussing this again considering that
it was discussed earlier in this release cycle, agreed to, changed,
tested and documented.
If I recall correctly, the main complaint before the current version,
was that it was too easy to accidentally scroll the track contents
(the waveform) when intending to scroll tracks (in multi-track
projects).
There was that too, which is why "on the whole" I've come to
like the change. But we do have a regression (feature loss)
for varying dB scale with magnification, whatever value you
put on it.
I did not get involved enough then. I regret it now.
I am not sold on the "consistency" argument for the change of modifiers.
But what concerns me more is loss of one of the four actions.
If only one of the two scroll actions to change the dB limit must be
kept,
Post by Paul Licameli
did we choose the right one?
Given I don't use the vertical scale much in dB, I don't know,
but I preferred fixing on the 0 dB to not.
In other words, the removed behavior. My opinion too.
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Paul Licameli
Perhaps the unusual shift+ctrl+mousewheel could do both of these things,
with a further distinction based on mouse position. If the pointer is
near
Post by Paul Licameli
enough to the center line, do as shift+mousewheel in 2.1.2. If nearer
the
Post by Paul Licameli
extremes, then do as shift+ctrl+mousewheel.
I would prefer to add another shortcut rather than restrict on
mouse position. The new shortcut is only for vertical scale
in dB after all.
What do you mean by "shortcut"? Too many keystrokes are claimed already I
think.

PRL
Post by Gale Andrews
As always, if users complain in sufficient numbers then the
"feature loss" would go on Bugzilla as an Enh.
Gale
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Gale Andrews
Zooming the vertical scale when you wanted to zoom the
waveform (and vice-versa) is still a problem. I get caught
a lot by zooming in then out on the vertical scale. When
you zoom out, unless the pointer is close to the Track
Control Panel, the width of the vertical scale reduces,
the mouse then becomes over the waveform, and the
waveform just becomes a sliver next to time zero.
Perhaps we should keep a constant width for the vertical
scale and change the font size of the numbers when
needed?
Or again, maybe be more discrimination about the hot zone. Maybe require
the mouse to be in the left half or three-fourths of the ruler. That
might
Post by Paul Licameli
be a big enough target, while avoiding the accidental scrolling of the
wave
Post by Paul Licameli
when the ruler changes width.
PRL
Post by Gale Andrews
Gale
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Cliff Scott
FYI, on MBP using El Capitan
Note: Wheel and 2 finger trackpad scroll operate the same.
2.1.2
Wheel- scrolls view up and down
Cmd/Ctrl+Wheel - changes magnification
Shift + Wheel - Nothing
Cmd+Shift+Wheel - Nothing
Cliff, to see the effects of shift+wheel and shift+ctrl+wheel, you
must
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
choose waveform dB view, and the midline of the wave must be within view.
Post by Cliff Scott
2.1.3 built Oct. 6th
Wheel - Nothing
Cmd/Ctrl+Wheel - Changes magnification
Shift+ Wheel - Changes bottom of dB scale without changing magnification
Shift+Cmd/Ctrl - Nothing
The change was that shift+wheel now does what unmodified wheel did,
and
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
shift+cmd+wheel does what shift+wheel did. And what shift+cmd+wheel
did
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
is
not longer available.
PRL
Post by Cliff Scott
Cliff
Reviewing some of the history of this release, I am now considering the
commit 256a8aaedd45733233bbd0f157affcf12bfeba31, which causes a regression
in capabilities from 2.1.2.
Whereas four things could be done with mouse wheel in the vertical ruler
of Waveform dB view in 2.1.2, now there are only three things. I think the
one that was lost was useful. I want to question this change now
and
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Cliff Scott
find
consensus.
Used to be thus -- I suggest you generate a pluck and try all four
wheel without modifiers scrolls the view up and down;
ctrl+wheel changes magnification;
shift+wheel changes bottom of dB scale WITHOUT changing magification
(meaning the zero dB mark moves up and down)
shift+ctrl+wheel changes bottom of dB scale WITH a change of
magnification, such that the db mark at the visible top of the scale remains
in view.
But now, these are respectively shift+wheel, ctrl+wheel, shift+cltr+wheel,
and unavailable.
Steve did this in the name of "consistency" but I don't know what
that
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Cliff Scott
means. If unmodified mouse wheel with pointer in the wave moves things up
and down on screen, then what obtained before was more consistent
with
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Cliff Scott
that.
If I am wrong, still the unmodified scroll wheel action is still available,
and might be reassigned.
I don't recall who else favored this change. But I don't like it
that
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Cliff Scott
one
of four options is lost.
James has suggested that the mouse wheel actions should be governed
by
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Cliff Scott
preferences, but that's for the future.
2016-08-09 12:01:05
2016-08-09 12:01:05
Parent: 6089c94971e1ce0b7c94ab9f7762f6dc1383ef5f (Fix bug 1473)
Child: 8cb8e590468eedbceaee9f5ed8d09d5cae8e45a8 (Remove line
breaks
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Cliff Scott
now
help window is smaller)
Branches: delete-array, envelope-fixes, malloc2, master, refcounts,
remotes/audacity/master, remotes/origin/WaveClips,
remotes/origin/delete-array, remotes/origin/deletes,
remotes/origin/import-deletes, remotes/origin/refcounts,
remotes/walisser/omp-artist, sampleCount, sampleCount2, shadows,
track-iters, track-iters2, warnings
Follows: Good-Mac-Build
Precedes: No-Scalar-Naked-New
Consistent vert/horizontal waveform zoom/scroll
Shift+Wheel -> scroll
Ctrl+Wheel -> zoom
Ctrl+Shift+Wheel -> Waveform dB end range adjust (when visible).
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Cliff Scott
The Command Line: Reinvented for Modern Developers
Did the resurgence of CLI tooling catch you by surprise?
Reconnect with the command line and become more productive.
Learn the new .NET and ASP.NET CLI. Get your free copy!
http://sdm.link/telerik_____________________________________
__________
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Cliff Scott
audacity-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Cliff Scott
The Command Line: Reinvented for Modern Developers
Did the resurgence of CLI tooling catch you by surprise?
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Learn the new .NET and ASP.NET CLI. Get your free copy!
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Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
The Command Line: Reinvented for Modern Developers
Did the resurgence of CLI tooling catch you by surprise?
Reconnect with the command line and become more productive.
Learn the new .NET and ASP.NET CLI. Get your free copy!
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Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Steve the Fiddle
The Command Line: Reinvented for Modern Developers
Did the resurgence of CLI tooling catch you by surprise?
Reconnect with the command line and become more productive.
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Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Gale Andrews
The Command Line: Reinvented for Modern Developers
Did the resurgence of CLI tooling catch you by surprise?
Reconnect with the command line and become more productive.
Learn the new .NET and ASP.NET CLI. Get your free copy!
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Post by Paul Licameli
The Command Line: Reinvented for Modern Developers
Did the resurgence of CLI tooling catch you by surprise?
Reconnect with the command line and become more productive.
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Gale Andrews
2016-10-28 17:31:55 UTC
Permalink
I meant a mouse binding with wheel (as I suggested
before using ALT/Option) - "shortcut" was loose usage.

I see you have committed a change based on mouse
position. I think that could prove too fiddly/look buggy
if you don't realise what's going on - but then I don't
use the vertical scale much so let others who do
comment about it.

I'm glad there is now no loss of feature.


Gale
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Paul Licameli
On 27 October 2016 at 00:46, Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
I don't really see why we are discussing this again considering that
it was discussed earlier in this release cycle, agreed to, changed,
tested and documented.
If I recall correctly, the main complaint before the current version,
was that it was too easy to accidentally scroll the track contents
(the waveform) when intending to scroll tracks (in multi-track
projects).
There was that too, which is why "on the whole" I've come to
like the change. But we do have a regression (feature loss)
for varying dB scale with magnification, whatever value you
put on it.
I did not get involved enough then. I regret it now.
I am not sold on the "consistency" argument for the change of modifiers.
But what concerns me more is loss of one of the four actions.
If only one of the two scroll actions to change the dB limit must be kept,
did we choose the right one?
Given I don't use the vertical scale much in dB, I don't know,
but I preferred fixing on the 0 dB to not.
In other words, the removed behavior. My opinion too.
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Paul Licameli
Perhaps the unusual shift+ctrl+mousewheel could do both of these things,
with a further distinction based on mouse position. If the pointer is near
enough to the center line, do as shift+mousewheel in 2.1.2. If nearer the
extremes, then do as shift+ctrl+mousewheel.
I would prefer to add another shortcut rather than restrict on
mouse position. The new shortcut is only for vertical scale
in dB after all.
What do you mean by "shortcut"? Too many keystrokes are claimed already I
think.
PRL
Post by Gale Andrews
As always, if users complain in sufficient numbers then the
"feature loss" would go on Bugzilla as an Enh.
Gale
Post by Paul Licameli
Zooming the vertical scale when you wanted to zoom the
waveform (and vice-versa) is still a problem. I get caught
a lot by zooming in then out on the vertical scale. When
you zoom out, unless the pointer is close to the Track
Control Panel, the width of the vertical scale reduces,
the mouse then becomes over the waveform, and the
waveform just becomes a sliver next to time zero.
Perhaps we should keep a constant width for the vertical
scale and change the font size of the numbers when
needed?
Or again, maybe be more discrimination about the hot zone. Maybe require
the mouse to be in the left half or three-fourths of the ruler. That might
be a big enough target, while avoiding the accidental scrolling of the wave
when the ruler changes width.
PRL
Gale
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Cliff Scott
FYI, on MBP using El Capitan
Note: Wheel and 2 finger trackpad scroll operate the same.
2.1.2
Wheel- scrolls view up and down
Cmd/Ctrl+Wheel - changes magnification
Shift + Wheel - Nothing
Cmd+Shift+Wheel - Nothing
Cliff, to see the effects of shift+wheel and shift+ctrl+wheel, you must
choose waveform dB view, and the midline of the wave must be within view.
Post by Cliff Scott
2.1.3 built Oct. 6th
Wheel - Nothing
Cmd/Ctrl+Wheel - Changes magnification
Shift+ Wheel - Changes bottom of dB scale without changing magnification
Shift+Cmd/Ctrl - Nothing
The change was that shift+wheel now does what unmodified wheel did, and
shift+cmd+wheel does what shift+wheel did. And what shift+cmd+wheel did
is
not longer available.
PRL
Post by Cliff Scott
Cliff
On Oct 26, 2016, at 1:03 PM, Paul Licameli
Reviewing some of the history of this release, I am now considering the
commit 256a8aaedd45733233bbd0f157affcf12bfeba31, which causes a regression
in capabilities from 2.1.2.
Whereas four things could be done with mouse wheel in the vertical ruler
of Waveform dB view in 2.1.2, now there are only three things. I think the
one that was lost was useful. I want to question this change now and
find
consensus.
Used to be thus -- I suggest you generate a pluck and try all four
wheel without modifiers scrolls the view up and down;
ctrl+wheel changes magnification;
shift+wheel changes bottom of dB scale WITHOUT changing magification
(meaning the zero dB mark moves up and down)
shift+ctrl+wheel changes bottom of dB scale WITH a change of
magnification, such that the db mark at the visible top of the scale
remains
in view.
But now, these are respectively shift+wheel, ctrl+wheel, shift+cltr+wheel,
and unavailable.
Steve did this in the name of "consistency" but I don't know what that
means. If unmodified mouse wheel with pointer in the wave moves things up
and down on screen, then what obtained before was more consistent with
that.
If I am wrong, still the unmodified scroll wheel action is still available,
and might be reassigned.
I don't recall who else favored this change. But I don't like it that
one
of four options is lost.
James has suggested that the mouse wheel actions should be governed by
preferences, but that's for the future.
2016-08-09 12:01:05
2016-08-09 12:01:05
Parent: 6089c94971e1ce0b7c94ab9f7762f6dc1383ef5f (Fix bug 1473)
Child: 8cb8e590468eedbceaee9f5ed8d09d5cae8e45a8 (Remove line breaks
now
help window is smaller)
Branches: delete-array, envelope-fixes, malloc2, master, refcounts,
remotes/audacity/master, remotes/origin/WaveClips,
remotes/origin/delete-array, remotes/origin/deletes,
remotes/origin/import-deletes, remotes/origin/refcounts,
remotes/walisser/omp-artist, sampleCount, sampleCount2, shadows,
track-iters, track-iters2, warnings
Follows: Good-Mac-Build
Precedes: No-Scalar-Naked-New
Consistent vert/horizontal waveform zoom/scroll
Shift+Wheel -> scroll
Ctrl+Wheel -> zoom
Ctrl+Shift+Wheel -> Waveform dB end range adjust (when visible).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Command Line: Reinvented for Modern Developers
Did the resurgence of CLI tooling catch you by surprise?
Reconnect with the command line and become more productive.
Learn the new .NET and ASP.NET CLI. Get your free copy!
http://sdm.link/telerik_______________________________________________
audacity-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Command Line: Reinvented for Modern Developers
Did the resurgence of CLI tooling catch you by surprise?
Reconnect with the command line and become more productive.
Learn the new .NET and ASP.NET CLI. Get your free copy!
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Paul Licameli
2016-10-28 17:46:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gale Andrews
I meant a mouse binding with wheel (as I suggested
before using ALT/Option) - "shortcut" was loose usage.
I see you have committed a change based on mouse
position. I think that could prove too fiddly/look buggy
if you don't realise what's going on - but then I don't
use the vertical scale much so let others who do
comment about it.
I'm glad there is now no loss of feature.
I am open to detailed alternative suggestions for keeping the feature. I
put something out for all to try, that made sense to me.

PRL
Post by Gale Andrews
Gale
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Paul Licameli
On 27 October 2016 at 00:46, Steve the Fiddle
Post by Steve the Fiddle
I don't really see why we are discussing this again considering
that
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
it was discussed earlier in this release cycle, agreed to, changed,
tested and documented.
If I recall correctly, the main complaint before the current
version,
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
was that it was too easy to accidentally scroll the track contents
(the waveform) when intending to scroll tracks (in multi-track
projects).
There was that too, which is why "on the whole" I've come to
like the change. But we do have a regression (feature loss)
for varying dB scale with magnification, whatever value you
put on it.
I did not get involved enough then. I regret it now.
I am not sold on the "consistency" argument for the change of
modifiers.
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Paul Licameli
But what concerns me more is loss of one of the four actions.
If only one of the two scroll actions to change the dB limit must be kept,
did we choose the right one?
Given I don't use the vertical scale much in dB, I don't know,
but I preferred fixing on the 0 dB to not.
In other words, the removed behavior. My opinion too.
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Paul Licameli
Perhaps the unusual shift+ctrl+mousewheel could do both of these
things,
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Paul Licameli
with a further distinction based on mouse position. If the pointer is near
enough to the center line, do as shift+mousewheel in 2.1.2. If nearer the
extremes, then do as shift+ctrl+mousewheel.
I would prefer to add another shortcut rather than restrict on
mouse position. The new shortcut is only for vertical scale
in dB after all.
What do you mean by "shortcut"? Too many keystrokes are claimed already
I
Post by Paul Licameli
think.
PRL
Post by Gale Andrews
As always, if users complain in sufficient numbers then the
"feature loss" would go on Bugzilla as an Enh.
Gale
Post by Paul Licameli
Zooming the vertical scale when you wanted to zoom the
waveform (and vice-versa) is still a problem. I get caught
a lot by zooming in then out on the vertical scale. When
you zoom out, unless the pointer is close to the Track
Control Panel, the width of the vertical scale reduces,
the mouse then becomes over the waveform, and the
waveform just becomes a sliver next to time zero.
Perhaps we should keep a constant width for the vertical
scale and change the font size of the numbers when
needed?
Or again, maybe be more discrimination about the hot zone. Maybe require
the mouse to be in the left half or three-fourths of the ruler. That might
be a big enough target, while avoiding the accidental scrolling of the wave
when the ruler changes width.
PRL
Gale
Post by Steve the Fiddle
On 26 October 2016 at 23:44, Paul Licameli <
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Cliff Scott
FYI, on MBP using El Capitan
Note: Wheel and 2 finger trackpad scroll operate the same.
2.1.2
Wheel- scrolls view up and down
Cmd/Ctrl+Wheel - changes magnification
Shift + Wheel - Nothing
Cmd+Shift+Wheel - Nothing
Cliff, to see the effects of shift+wheel and shift+ctrl+wheel, you must
choose waveform dB view, and the midline of the wave must be
within
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
view.
Post by Cliff Scott
2.1.3 built Oct. 6th
Wheel - Nothing
Cmd/Ctrl+Wheel - Changes magnification
Shift+ Wheel - Changes bottom of dB scale without changing
magnification
Shift+Cmd/Ctrl - Nothing
The change was that shift+wheel now does what unmodified wheel
did,
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
and
shift+cmd+wheel does what shift+wheel did. And what
shift+cmd+wheel
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
did
is
not longer available.
PRL
Post by Cliff Scott
Cliff
On Oct 26, 2016, at 1:03 PM, Paul Licameli
Reviewing some of the history of this release, I am now
considering
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Cliff Scott
the
commit 256a8aaedd45733233bbd0f157affcf12bfeba31, which causes a
regression
in capabilities from 2.1.2.
Whereas four things could be done with mouse wheel in the
vertical
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Cliff Scott
ruler
of Waveform dB view in 2.1.2, now there are only three things. I
think the
one that was lost was useful. I want to question this change now and
find
consensus.
Used to be thus -- I suggest you generate a pluck and try all
four
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Cliff Scott
wheel without modifiers scrolls the view up and down;
ctrl+wheel changes magnification;
shift+wheel changes bottom of dB scale WITHOUT changing magification
(meaning the zero dB mark moves up and down)
shift+ctrl+wheel changes bottom of dB scale WITH a change of
magnification, such that the db mark at the visible top of the scale
remains
in view.
But now, these are respectively shift+wheel, ctrl+wheel,
shift+cltr+wheel,
and unavailable.
Steve did this in the name of "consistency" but I don't know what that
means. If unmodified mouse wheel with pointer in the wave moves
things up
and down on screen, then what obtained before was more consistent with
that.
If I am wrong, still the unmodified scroll wheel action is still
available,
and might be reassigned.
I don't recall who else favored this change. But I don't like it that
one
of four options is lost.
James has suggested that the mouse wheel actions should be
governed
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Cliff Scott
by
preferences, but that's for the future.
2016-08-09 12:01:05
github.com>
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Cliff Scott
2016-08-09 12:01:05
Parent: 6089c94971e1ce0b7c94ab9f7762f6dc1383ef5f (Fix bug 1473)
Child: 8cb8e590468eedbceaee9f5ed8d09d5cae8e45a8 (Remove line breaks
now
help window is smaller)
Branches: delete-array, envelope-fixes, malloc2, master,
refcounts,
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Cliff Scott
remotes/audacity/master, remotes/origin/WaveClips,
remotes/origin/delete-array, remotes/origin/deletes,
remotes/origin/import-deletes, remotes/origin/refcounts,
remotes/walisser/omp-artist, sampleCount, sampleCount2, shadows,
track-iters, track-iters2, warnings
Follows: Good-Mac-Build
Precedes: No-Scalar-Naked-New
Consistent vert/horizontal waveform zoom/scroll
Shift+Wheel -> scroll
Ctrl+Wheel -> zoom
Ctrl+Shift+Wheel -> Waveform dB end range adjust (when visible).
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Cliff Scott
The Command Line: Reinvented for Modern Developers
Did the resurgence of CLI tooling catch you by surprise?
Reconnect with the command line and become more productive.
Learn the new .NET and ASP.NET CLI. Get your free copy!
http://sdm.link/telerik_____________________________________
__________
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Gale Andrews
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Steve the Fiddle
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The Command Line: Reinvented for Modern Developers
Did the resurgence of CLI tooling catch you by surprise?
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http://sdm.link/telerik
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Post by Paul Licameli
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Post by Steve the Fiddle
The Command Line: Reinvented for Modern Developers
Did the resurgence of CLI tooling catch you by surprise?
Reconnect with the command line and become more productive.
Learn the new .NET and ASP.NET CLI. Get your free copy!
http://sdm.link/telerik
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The Command Line: Reinvented for Modern Developers
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The Command Line: Reinvented for Modern Developers
Did the resurgence of CLI tooling catch you by surprise?
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The Command Line: Reinvented for Modern Developers
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The Command Line: Reinvented for Modern Developers
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Cliff Scott
2016-10-27 02:22:02 UTC
Permalink
Thanks for straightening me out. They both do in fact as you say.

Cliff
Post by Cliff Scott
FYI, on MBP using El Capitan
Note: Wheel and 2 finger trackpad scroll operate the same.
2.1.2
Wheel- scrolls view up and down
Cmd/Ctrl+Wheel - changes magnification
Shift + Wheel - Nothing
Cmd+Shift+Wheel - Nothing
Cliff, to see the effects of shift+wheel and shift+ctrl+wheel, you must choose waveform dB view, and the midline of the wave must be within view.
2.1.3 built Oct. 6th
Wheel - Nothing
Cmd/Ctrl+Wheel - Changes magnification
Shift+ Wheel - Changes bottom of dB scale without changing magnification
Shift+Cmd/Ctrl - Nothing
The change was that shift+wheel now does what unmodified wheel did, and shift+cmd+wheel does what shift+wheel did. And what shift+cmd+wheel did is not longer available.
PRL
Cliff
Reviewing some of the history of this release, I am now considering the commit 256a8aaedd45733233bbd0f157affcf12bfeba31, which causes a regression in capabilities from 2.1.2.
Whereas four things could be done with mouse wheel in the vertical ruler of Waveform dB view in 2.1.2, now there are only three things. I think the one that was lost was useful. I want to question this change now and find consensus.
wheel without modifiers scrolls the view up and down;
ctrl+wheel changes magnification;
shift+wheel changes bottom of dB scale WITHOUT changing magification (meaning the zero dB mark moves up and down)
shift+ctrl+wheel changes bottom of dB scale WITH a change of magnification, such that the db mark at the visible top of the scale remains in view.
But now, these are respectively shift+wheel, ctrl+wheel, shift+cltr+wheel, and unavailable.
Steve did this in the name of "consistency" but I don't know what that means. If unmodified mouse wheel with pointer in the wave moves things up and down on screen, then what obtained before was more consistent with that. If I am wrong, still the unmodified scroll wheel action is still available, and might be reassigned.
I don't recall who else favored this change. But I don't like it that one of four options is lost.
James has suggested that the mouse wheel actions should be governed by preferences, but that's for the future.
Parent: 6089c94971e1ce0b7c94ab9f7762f6dc1383ef5f (Fix bug 1473)
Child: 8cb8e590468eedbceaee9f5ed8d09d5cae8e45a8 (Remove line breaks now help window is smaller)
Branches: delete-array, envelope-fixes, malloc2, master, refcounts, remotes/audacity/master, remotes/origin/WaveClips, remotes/origin/delete-array, remotes/origin/deletes, remotes/origin/import-deletes, remotes/origin/refcounts, remotes/walisser/omp-artist, sampleCount, sampleCount2, shadows, track-iters, track-iters2, warnings
Follows: Good-Mac-Build
Precedes: No-Scalar-Naked-New
Consistent vert/horizontal waveform zoom/scroll
Shift+Wheel -> scroll
Ctrl+Wheel -> zoom
Ctrl+Shift+Wheel -> Waveform dB end range adjust (when visible).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Command Line: Reinvented for Modern Developers
Did the resurgence of CLI tooling catch you by surprise?
Reconnect with the command line and become more productive.
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The Command Line: Reinvented for Modern Developers
Did the resurgence of CLI tooling catch you by surprise?
Reconnect with the command line and become more productive.
Learn the new .NET and ASP.NET <http://asp.net/> CLI. Get your free copy!
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The Command Line: Reinvented for Modern Developers
Did the resurgence of CLI tooling catch you by surprise?
Reconnect with the command line and become more productive.
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