Discussion:
Bye bye tab and tooltips, hello Esc key and status
(too old to reply)
Paul Licameli
2017-07-16 01:07:57 UTC
Permalink
I have done it as of 5644bed8bd6c4d11d12b1b8633f30009ab14555e:

Reverted the new tab key action, reverted the track panel tooltips. (But I
may bring back some tooltips, just to make the TCP buttons act more
consistently with the toolbar buttons.)

But implemented more Esc key actions. Esc used to cancel some drags in
2.1.3; in 2.2.0, for some time now, it had cancelled all drags. Now, it
can also change the hit target before click, and escape from a yellow snap
line in selection tool, at either the beginning or end of drag.

So to escape completely from a drag that snaps the endpoint, you must hit
Esc twice.

Also the status bar message appends (Esc to cancel) whenever Esc does
anything, so there is a small clue to discoverability.

I like this compromise -- it accomplishes what I want, while avoiding the
recent objections, and I think I don't need to make this EXPERIMENTAL or
hide it in the non-default state of a new preference.

There should be small consequences for the manual, mostly words, unless
perhaps there are images with the status bar messages lacking (Esc to
cancel) that might need update.

Any complaints?

PRL
Steve the Fiddle
2017-07-16 15:30:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Licameli
Reverted the new tab key action, reverted the track panel tooltips. (But I
may bring back some tooltips, just to make the TCP buttons act more
consistently with the toolbar buttons.)
But implemented more Esc key actions. Esc used to cancel some drags in
2.1.3; in 2.2.0, for some time now, it had cancelled all drags. Now, it can
also change the hit target before click, and escape from a yellow snap line
in selection tool, at either the beginning or end of drag.
So to escape completely from a drag that snaps the endpoint, you must hit
Esc twice.
Also the status bar message appends (Esc to cancel) whenever Esc does
anything, so there is a small clue to discoverability.
I like this compromise -- it accomplishes what I want, while avoiding the
recent objections, and I think I don't need to make this EXPERIMENTAL or
hide it in the non-default state of a new preference.
There should be small consequences for the manual, mostly words, unless
perhaps there are images with the status bar messages lacking (Esc to
cancel) that might need update.
Any complaints?
I was dubious about this from the written description, but from
initial practical tests it seems to work rather well.

Steve
Post by Paul Licameli
PRL
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
audacity-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
Peter Sampson
2017-07-17 09:44:21 UTC
Permalink
Is Esc the best modifier key for this purpose.

I would have thought that Alt would have been much better.

The user is not really escaping from anything with this - rather thay are
switching to an alternative mode for the tool at that postion (in this case
the split line).

Peter
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
Reverted the new tab key action, reverted the track panel tooltips.
(But I
Post by Paul Licameli
may bring back some tooltips, just to make the TCP buttons act more
consistently with the toolbar buttons.)
But implemented more Esc key actions. Esc used to cancel some drags in
2.1.3; in 2.2.0, for some time now, it had cancelled all drags. Now, it
can
Post by Paul Licameli
also change the hit target before click, and escape from a yellow snap
line
Post by Paul Licameli
in selection tool, at either the beginning or end of drag.
So to escape completely from a drag that snaps the endpoint, you must hit
Esc twice.
Also the status bar message appends (Esc to cancel) whenever Esc does
anything, so there is a small clue to discoverability.
I like this compromise -- it accomplishes what I want, while avoiding the
recent objections, and I think I don't need to make this EXPERIMENTAL or
hide it in the non-default state of a new preference.
There should be small consequences for the manual, mostly words, unless
perhaps there are images with the status bar messages lacking (Esc to
cancel) that might need update.
Any complaints?
I was dubious about this from the written description, but from
initial practical tests it seems to work rather well.
Steve
Post by Paul Licameli
PRL
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Post by Paul Licameli
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
audacity-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
audacity-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
Steve the Fiddle
2017-07-17 10:10:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Sampson
Is Esc the best modifier key for this purpose.
I would have thought that Alt would have been much better.
The user is not really escaping from anything with this
It could be argued that they are escaping from the default behaviour.
It's not really a "mode change" because it's not persistent, and it's
not really a "modified action" like "Shift + Click" because the ESC
key is only pressed, not held down.
As I wrote previously, I wasn't keen on the idea 'on paper', but it
seems to work pretty well in practice.

Steve
Post by Peter Sampson
- rather thay are
switching to an alternative mode for the tool at that postion (in this case
the split line).
Peter
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Reverted the new tab key action, reverted the track panel tooltips.
(But I
may bring back some tooltips, just to make the TCP buttons act more
consistently with the toolbar buttons.)
But implemented more Esc key actions. Esc used to cancel some drags in
2.1.3; in 2.2.0, for some time now, it had cancelled all drags. Now, it can
also change the hit target before click, and escape from a yellow snap line
in selection tool, at either the beginning or end of drag.
So to escape completely from a drag that snaps the endpoint, you must hit
Esc twice.
Also the status bar message appends (Esc to cancel) whenever Esc does
anything, so there is a small clue to discoverability.
I like this compromise -- it accomplishes what I want, while avoiding the
recent objections, and I think I don't need to make this EXPERIMENTAL or
hide it in the non-default state of a new preference.
There should be small consequences for the manual, mostly words, unless
perhaps there are images with the status bar messages lacking (Esc to
cancel) that might need update.
Any complaints?
I was dubious about this from the written description, but from
initial practical tests it seems to work rather well.
Steve
Post by Paul Licameli
PRL
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
audacity-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
audacity-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
audacity-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
Paul Licameli
2017-07-17 10:34:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Peter Sampson
Is Esc the best modifier key for this purpose.
I would have thought that Alt would have been much better.
Making Alt do things at key-down seems unconventional to me. (I don't
count things that are un-done at key-up. Such as teh cursor change from
pencil to spray can in Draw tool).

But maybe someone knowns an exception among other programs.
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Peter Sampson
The user is not really escaping from anything with this
It could be argued that they are escaping from the default behaviour.
It's not really a "mode change" because it's not persistent, and it's
not really a "modified action" like "Shift + Click" because the ESC
key is only pressed, not held down.
As I wrote previously, I wasn't keen on the idea 'on paper', but it
seems to work pretty well in practice.
Steve
I wanted some key. Tab wasn't accepted. I have done Esc. I say it stands.

(Shift+) Tab, or maybe the mouse wheel, makes sense for going (backwards
or) forwards through a cycle of states.

Esc makes sense as "popping a stack" in one direction only. Usually a
shallow stack of only two states -- as, you have a modal dialog, then Esc,
and then it's out of your way.

The "stacks" of states here may be deeper, but I think it makes similar
sense. You have a background cursor applying at most mouse positions. A
yellow snap gets in your face at a small number of x coordinates, and Esc
takes it out of your way and makes that x behave like most other x.

The more special split line cursor is the doubly special case -- it's for
an even smaller subset of positions, for only certain y at that x.
(Because you might have another track, and the same x but y in that track,
would make the snap line and not the split line cursor.)

When samples and envelope points compete for your cursor in the multi-tool,
that makes less sense as a "stack" and might make more sense as a cycle,
but leave that be.

PRL
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Peter Sampson
- rather thay are
switching to an alternative mode for the tool at that postion (in this
case
Post by Peter Sampson
the split line).
Peter
On Sun, Jul 16, 2017 at 4:30 PM, Steve the Fiddle <
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Reverted the new tab key action, reverted the track panel tooltips.
(But I
may bring back some tooltips, just to make the TCP buttons act more
consistently with the toolbar buttons.)
But implemented more Esc key actions. Esc used to cancel some drags
in
Post by Peter Sampson
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
2.1.3; in 2.2.0, for some time now, it had cancelled all drags. Now,
it
Post by Peter Sampson
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
can
also change the hit target before click, and escape from a yellow snap line
in selection tool, at either the beginning or end of drag.
So to escape completely from a drag that snaps the endpoint, you must hit
Esc twice.
Also the status bar message appends (Esc to cancel) whenever Esc does
anything, so there is a small clue to discoverability.
I like this compromise -- it accomplishes what I want, while avoiding the
recent objections, and I think I don't need to make this EXPERIMENTAL
or
Post by Peter Sampson
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
hide it in the non-default state of a new preference.
There should be small consequences for the manual, mostly words,
unless
Post by Peter Sampson
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
perhaps there are images with the status bar messages lacking (Esc to
cancel) that might need update.
Any complaints?
I was dubious about this from the written description, but from
initial practical tests it seems to work rather well.
Steve
Post by Paul Licameli
PRL
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Post by Peter Sampson
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
audacity-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Post by Peter Sampson
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
audacity-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Post by Peter Sampson
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
audacity-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
audacity-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
Peter Sampson
2017-07-17 10:40:36 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 6:10 AM, Steve the Fiddle <
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Peter Sampson
Is Esc the best modifier key for this purpose.
I would have thought that Alt would have been much better.
Making Alt do things at key-down seems unconventional to me. (I don't
count things that are un-done at key-up. Such as teh cursor change from
pencil to spray can in Draw tool).
But maybe someone knowns an exception among other programs.
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Peter Sampson
The user is not really escaping from anything with this
It could be argued that they are escaping from the default behaviour.
It's not really a "mode change" because it's not persistent, and it's
not really a "modified action" like "Shift + Click" because the ESC
key is only pressed, not held down.
As I wrote previously, I wasn't keen on the idea 'on paper', but it
seems to work pretty well in practice.
Steve
I wanted some key. Tab wasn't accepted. I have done Esc. I say it stands.
We just cross-posted Paul - Steve already convinced me ;-))
(Shift+) Tab, or maybe the mouse wheel, makes sense for going (backwards
or) forwards through a cycle of states.
Esc makes sense as "popping a stack" in one direction only. Usually a
shallow stack of only two states -- as, you have a modal dialog, then Esc,
and then it's out of your way.
The "stacks" of states here may be deeper, but I think it makes similar
sense. You have a background cursor applying at most mouse positions. A
yellow snap gets in your face at a small number of x coordinates, and Esc
takes it out of your way and makes that x behave like most other x.
The more special split line cursor is the doubly special case -- it's for
an even smaller subset of positions, for only certain y at that x.
(Because you might have another track, and the same x but y in that track,
would make the snap line and not the split line cursor.)
When samples and envelope points compete for your cursor in the
multi-tool, that makes less sense as a "stack" and might make more sense as
a cycle, but leave that be.
PRL
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Peter Sampson
- rather thay are
switching to an alternative mode for the tool at that postion (in this
case
Post by Peter Sampson
the split line).
Peter
On Sun, Jul 16, 2017 at 4:30 PM, Steve the Fiddle <
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Reverted the new tab key action, reverted the track panel tooltips.
(But I
may bring back some tooltips, just to make the TCP buttons act more
consistently with the toolbar buttons.)
But implemented more Esc key actions. Esc used to cancel some drags
in
Post by Peter Sampson
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
2.1.3; in 2.2.0, for some time now, it had cancelled all drags.
Now, it
Post by Peter Sampson
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
can
also change the hit target before click, and escape from a yellow
snap
Post by Peter Sampson
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
line
in selection tool, at either the beginning or end of drag.
So to escape completely from a drag that snaps the endpoint, you must hit
Esc twice.
Also the status bar message appends (Esc to cancel) whenever Esc does
anything, so there is a small clue to discoverability.
I like this compromise -- it accomplishes what I want, while avoiding the
recent objections, and I think I don't need to make this
EXPERIMENTAL or
Post by Peter Sampson
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
hide it in the non-default state of a new preference.
There should be small consequences for the manual, mostly words,
unless
Post by Peter Sampson
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
perhaps there are images with the status bar messages lacking (Esc to
cancel) that might need update.
Any complaints?
I was dubious about this from the written description, but from
initial practical tests it seems to work rather well.
Steve
Post by Paul Licameli
PRL
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Post by Peter Sampson
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
audacity-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Post by Peter Sampson
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
audacity-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Post by Peter Sampson
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
audacity-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
audacity-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
audacity-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
Peter Sampson
2017-07-17 10:35:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Peter Sampson
Is Esc the best modifier key for this purpose.
I would have thought that Alt would have been much better.
The user is not really escaping from anything with this
It could be argued that they are escaping from the default behaviour.
It's not really a "mode change" because it's not persistent, and it's
not really a "modified action" like "Shift + Click" because the ESC
key is only pressed, not held down.
OK you've convinced me - Esc it is then ;-))
Post by Steve the Fiddle
As I wrote previously, I wasn't keen on the idea 'on paper', but it
seems to work pretty well in practice.
And as you are a long-time user of clips I'm glad to hear that.

I agree that it looks to work better in practice - than it appeared on
"paper",

Peter.
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Steve
Post by Peter Sampson
- rather thay are
switching to an alternative mode for the tool at that postion (in this
case
Post by Peter Sampson
the split line).
Peter
On Sun, Jul 16, 2017 at 4:30 PM, Steve the Fiddle <
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Reverted the new tab key action, reverted the track panel tooltips.
(But I
may bring back some tooltips, just to make the TCP buttons act more
consistently with the toolbar buttons.)
But implemented more Esc key actions. Esc used to cancel some drags
in
Post by Peter Sampson
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
2.1.3; in 2.2.0, for some time now, it had cancelled all drags. Now,
it
Post by Peter Sampson
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
can
also change the hit target before click, and escape from a yellow snap line
in selection tool, at either the beginning or end of drag.
So to escape completely from a drag that snaps the endpoint, you must hit
Esc twice.
Also the status bar message appends (Esc to cancel) whenever Esc does
anything, so there is a small clue to discoverability.
I like this compromise -- it accomplishes what I want, while avoiding the
recent objections, and I think I don't need to make this EXPERIMENTAL
or
Post by Peter Sampson
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
hide it in the non-default state of a new preference.
There should be small consequences for the manual, mostly words,
unless
Post by Peter Sampson
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
perhaps there are images with the status bar messages lacking (Esc to
cancel) that might need update.
Any complaints?
I was dubious about this from the written description, but from
initial practical tests it seems to work rather well.
Steve
Post by Paul Licameli
PRL
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Post by Peter Sampson
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Post by Paul Licameli
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
audacity-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Post by Peter Sampson
Post by Steve the Fiddle
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
audacity-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Post by Peter Sampson
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
audacity-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
audacity-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
David Bailes
2017-07-22 12:25:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Licameli
Post by Paul Licameli
Reverted the new tab key action, reverted the track panel tooltips.
(But I
Post by Paul Licameli
may bring back some tooltips, just to make the TCP buttons act more
consistently with the toolbar buttons.)
But implemented more Esc key actions. Esc used to cancel some drags in
2.1.3; in 2.2.0, for some time now, it had cancelled all drags. Now, it
can
Post by Paul Licameli
also change the hit target before click, and escape from a yellow snap
line
Post by Paul Licameli
in selection tool, at either the beginning or end of drag.
So to escape completely from a drag that snaps the endpoint, you must hit
Esc twice.
Also the status bar message appends (Esc to cancel) whenever Esc does
anything, so there is a small clue to discoverability.
I like this compromise -- it accomplishes what I want, while avoiding the
recent objections, and I think I don't need to make this EXPERIMENTAL or
hide it in the non-default state of a new preference.
There should be small consequences for the manual, mostly words, unless
perhaps there are images with the status bar messages lacking (Esc to
cancel) that might need update.
Any complaints?
I was dubious about this from the written description, but from
initial practical tests it seems to work rather well.
Although I think that at least some users will find the light show produced
by the flickering snap lines as you move the mouse pointer around the track
panel at least a little irritating. I'm afraid I'm one of them.

David.
Post by Paul Licameli
Steve
Post by Paul Licameli
PRL
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Post by Paul Licameli
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
audacity-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
audacity-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
Loading...